Holy Communion, Real Presence or merely symbolic?

[UtahOrBust]

Jhon 6:53-58

 

[Tutorman]

The Blessed Eucharist contains the real presence of Christ

 

[seeking.IAM]

Real presence. "This IS my body...This IS my blood."

 

[ripple the car]

I don't fully understand the Real Presence, but hope to understand better, by faith.

 

[dreadnought]

Jhon 6:53-58

The Lord is always with us.

 

[com7fy8]

In a child of God, the Person and presence of Jesus is being formed as that person's new inner person >

"My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)

And every child of God is a member of Jesus Christ's body >

"For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones." (Ephesians 5:30)

And 1 Peter 4:10 says >

"As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." (1 Peter 4:10)

So, every child of God has the real presence of Jesus in our hearts, and Jesus in and through us ministers His own grace > Galatians 2:20.

And this is all the time while we are obeying God, not only during communion. But during communion we can minister God's own grace to one another.

So, I would not say that communion is a main means of grace, nor would I say there is no ministering of grace during communion. Because we in Jesus can minister grace in all we do with God in His love and leading.

 

[Rubiks]

It's just a symbol.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It's just a symbol.

No matter how you slice it or dice it, it really is a wonderful symbol.

 

[tdidymas]

Jhon 6:53-58

John 6 context shows us that Jesus was speaking figuratively, since He said, "my words are spirit and life." Also "This is my body" is figurative language, since the bread did not change into something else at the time he said it. Also Paul confirms the figurative nature by quoting "This cup is the new covenant in My blood." Note he says "is the new covenant," not "is my blood."

It seems to me that the term "real presence" is a way of introducing a superstitious idea to people. Where it is true that the bread and wine ritual can draw us into an experience of increased awareness of the presence of Christ, it is also true that Christ is present everywhere, and we are able to experience an increased awareness of His presence at any time by any Christlike means. The idea of transubstantiation is based on a philosophical theory of Aristotle, not on scripture. The "eat my flesh" and "this is my body" verses are misused as excuses to support the transubstantiation theory.

The problem with claiming that the bread and wine are miraculously transformed is that the physical universe shows that it is not. Miracles in the scripture are always proven to be miracles by the physical manipulation of supernatural power. Anyone can claim that anything is a miracle if it doesn't have to be proven by physical changes. IMO people who believe in that "miracle" of transubstantiation are sadly mistaken.

I realize that my statements here may stir a hornet's nest, since this is one of the "sacred cows" of Christendom.
TD

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Real body, blood, soul, divinity.
Jesus said it. I believe it. That settles it.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Real body, blood, soul, divinity.
Jesus said it. I believe it. That settles it.

Jesus said, "I am the door . . ."

He said it, I believe it, that settles it.

 

[FenderTL5]

In our Church, it is taught and we believe there is a real presence in the Eucharist based on our understanding of the scriptures and the teaching of the Apostles.

In the tradition I left, before Orthodoxy, it was taught that there is no real presence and that the Lord's Supper service in the church is merely an opportunity for reflection.

I believe both churches to have spoken correctly for themselves.

 

[bbbbbbb]

In our Church, it is taught and we believe there is a real presence in the Eucharist based on our understanding of the scriptures and the teaching of the Apostles.

In the tradition I left, before Orthodoxy, it was taught that there is no real presence and that the Lord's Supper service in the church is merely an opportunity for reflection.

I believe both churches to have spoken correctly for themselves.

Thank you for your kind, mediating post. I do not know of any Christians who deny that the Eucharist is symbolic at some level or another.

 

[Tutorman]

My Bishop has said that while others Christians who do not believe in the Real Presence are Christians they are starving themselves to death.

 

[bbbbbbb]

My Bishop has said that while others Christians who do not believe in the Real Presence are Christians they are starving themselves to death.

He is certainly entitled to his understanding, but I do find his remark to be rather crude and inaccurate.

 

[Tutorman]

Rather he s right. Those who shun the Real Presence are in essence shunning Christ. It is like saying thanks fr the free gift but I do not want I do not believe what you say

 

[bbbbbbb]

Rather he s right. Those who shun the Real Presence are in essence shunning Christ. It is like saying thanks fr the free gift but I do not want I do not believe what you say

I regret that you cannot comprehend the other side of the issue, but I do confess that I understand the argument for Real Presence.

 

[W2L]

The Lord is always with us.

Exactly. Where two or three are gathered, He is there among them.

 

[dreadnought]

Exactly. Where two or three are gathered, He is there among them.

Actually, the Holy Spirit is with each of us.

 

[W2L]

Actually, the Holy Spirit is with each of us.

I agree.