Holiness VS Worldliness

SaintJoeNow said:

I enjoyed your long post and would very much like to see you do one on the temptations of Christ in the wilderness and how Satan tried to use the things of the world to tempt Him.

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Yes, I may, but have been busy. Maybe in the morning, if I am able. Need to do some errands and chores, but should have some time then.

Saint Joe,I appreciate you have grown in understanding.

I do not want to argue as well and do not consider this discussion a argument.

If you have heard all of what I have posted before and have grown to a higher level of understanding that's
a good thing.

Much of what I post Is personal experience and some of it has caused a lot of strife in my family.

You can be so Holy your kids won't set foot in Church again.

Once agian thank you for your teaching.

Romans: 3. 20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

now faith said:

For the lost.

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So the saints need not repent

rockytopva said:

So the saints need not repent

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For being saints,or for not drinking the kool aid?

rockytopva said:

So the saints need not repent

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Since Christ died for our sins, and we were not born when he died,do you think

we could possibly repent upon salvation?

Unless he did not die for sins yet to be committed,or maybe it's all conditional on our works toward repentance and righteous deeds.

Don't confuse living a godly life with holiness.

(Tit 2:1) But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

(Tit 2:2) That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

(Tit 2:3) The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

(Tit 2:4) That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

(Tit 2:5) To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

(Tit 2:6) Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.

(Tit 2:7) In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

(Tit 2:8) Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

(Tit 2:9) Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;

(Tit 2:10) Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

(Tit 2:11) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

(Tit 2:12) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

(Tit 2:13) Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


You can separate yourself from the world but the problem of your sin still remains. Moreover if you think you make yourself pleasing to God by your holy consecration you have not yet learned Christ. If you think that by being "holy" God will be more pleased with you or bless and use you more then you have not yet learned Christ.

The New Testament teaches us to rest in Christ alone for all things and to live as though we do.

SaintJoeNow said:

... I enjoyed your long post and would very much like to see you do one on the temptations of Christ in the wilderness and how Satan tried to use the things of the world to tempt Him.

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My apologies for making this so long. There is so much associated with this that there is not much I can omit for the purpose of brevity. There are to be two long posts to cover this subject. It is why I hesitated in writing, and certainly in posting this. May God grant to our hearts the understanding we need, and that we may see His truth as it is from the scriptures.

There are things specific to being a human person walking this Earth that are not applicable to other situations, or for other beings in God's heavenly realm. There is a spiritual realm that does not have these certain and specific limitations and demands that are present in this life on this planet, and to these particular beings.

When God created man to live on this Earth, He made a being that was part of a creation that was not like other places. The existence requires beings to utilize AIR to breathe, and FOOD for sustenance. The presence of LIQUID H2O is unique here. Our bodies are mostly water by weight, and that makes our environment particularly suited to our existence. When we read about the creation of this existence, God first said, "Let there be light." We all know this, but do we realize that it is necessary because the illumination of this creation is specifically required HERE? We need a specific type of light, as the limits of our existence also limits the range and spectrum of light we perceive. Other existences are illuminated differently, as will this planet be when all is finished, according to the last chapter of the last book of the Holy Bible.


God created water on this planet, and it may specifically be that its properties are SPECIFICALLY designed to show forth how God has a flowing forth of His word of truth. The more purely this is applicable, the closer we get to the river of life that flows from the Temple in the Great and Holy City, New Jerusalem.

The physical aspects of our existence have demands, but the fall of man, and the resulting nature of man, tend to convert all these demands for sustaining life into LUSTS for things we LIKE, more than NEED. As we see the initial temptation of man on this Earth, we consider the only command of God to Adam (the first two people. Adam named his wife, Eve, as it was his job to name every creature!) Enoch wrote that he saw a tree that was more beautiful than any other, and had a fragrance that was more enticing than anything in God's creation. This was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the fruit of which man was forbidden to eat. So man has needs and desires, and also, he has senses that compel him to fulfill those needs and desires.

As Adam the First conveyed this command to his wife, she was likely full of questions. Can I look at it? Can I smell it? Can I touch it? Likely at this point he stops her, and says, "...don't go near it, and don't even touch it." This curious tendency of the woman was utilized by Satan who would not trust such an important task to any of his subordinate angels. He was the one who talked through the serpent to Eve. This very subtle animal was chosen for that reason. Satan tempted Eve in the very things we are all tempted, and even our LORD was tempted.

First the temptation was that Eve was just spending time looking at the tree. She figured it smelled so good, and had the obvious benefit of being good for food. The most particular observation she made was prompted specifically by Satan's defiance of the command of God. She could see the tree was able to make one WISE. It was able to make one LIKE GOD. The fragrance, beauty and the values of the fruit appealed to the lust of the flesh. The ability to make one wise appealed to the lust of the eyes. Most particularly, though, the ability to make the one who eats this fruit to be LIKE GOD appealed to the lust for power and the pride of life.

It is important to note that Adam the First was not deceived, but chose to go with his wife rather than stand upon the command of God. Our fall and our curse is specifically because of what Adam DECIDED to do, and not because of him being confused or deceived. We are not in condemnation because of a trick. The trick was employed to force Adam into this decision, and the ploy worked to his destruction. All people born here have this curse and the fallen nature of Adam as part of who and what they are. The temptations brought to Eve have been brought to every person walking this Earth, and they have failed the test. Man is fallen, deceived, and has this specific role in his own guilt and condemnation.

When Jesus was in the wilderness, He was forty days without food. It is not suggested that he snacked on wild berries or tree bark, but that he fasted. This was to bring him very close to death by starvation, so as to make the appeal of the objects people lust for to be as intense as possible. In this, there are no people who were ever any hungrier, that were tempted to do something wrong, so they might eat. There were no people more deprived of a rightful place in the hierarchy of human society that were tempted to have more power and authority than Jesus in this important time.


As the most vulnerable moment of this test was at hand, Satan (who apparently was tempting Jesus all through the 40 days,) suggested he satiate the starvation pains, His desire and demand for food, by misusing power that He had as the Son of God. Those stones probably looked just like loaves of bread, and were as enticing as possible for the moment. The lust of the eyes is employed in this application of the lust of the flesh. Seeing something the flesh desires, and being drawn to it, is part of the crossover mentioned in the earlier description of how this lust works with other lusts.

Jesus quoted scripture in its true context, and resisted the devil (James 4:7,) so Satan upped the stakes. Jesus was then taken by Satan PHYSICALLY to a pinnacle (high point) of the temple. I do not doubt that people could see a person up there, and certainly our LORD knew the potential of death. If there was any acrophobia, it was intensified. If there was a human ego, there was a strong appeal to it. Jesus knew the scriptures, as He was there in the inspiration of every word. Satan took the tack of quoting scripture to suggest that there was knowledge that Jesus had of the spiritual realm. Jesus had authority to bid aid from angels for His preservation. He could employ this in boosting His image of self importance. He would see, and be seen as being much more than other people. However, Jesus knew this was an unrighteous tempting of God.

Even now, when people lust to be seen, and have attention drawn to their own self, they may go as far as standing where they might jump or fall to their death. The sense of what people looking at Jesus may think of Him as he is protected from death by angels, would be a huge boost for the human EGO. How better to show the world that Jesus was NOT cursed with that fallen human nature than to resist the devil on this temptation? Jesus quoted scripture to show the wrong context of what Satan had said, resisting him yet again. (James 4:7)

In the ultimate moment of this test, where all the things a person needs, wants, sees, hears and craves are wrapped up in a grand temptation, Jesus is taken to the top of a high mountain. This may be Everest, but I think it was higher than that, since Jesus was shown all the kingdoms and authorities of this world's system in a moment. He had a view of ALL of the things Satan was given control over as "Prince of the Power of the Air," and the power he gained as "god of this world." The lust for power and the pride of life are wrapped up together in this final appeal to fleshly desire. Jesus was as weak as ever, and as anyone ever, so if there was EGO, and a fallen human nature, this appeal would be the epitome of opportunity to get things commonly desired by men. Jesus for the third time in this description of His temptation, resisted the devil by quoting God's true principles from scripture. (James 4:7) Jesus was victorious over sin and Satan. The devil had lost his crucial battle to diminish or destroy the LORD of life, and the only Savior of mankind.

Once Jesus' temptation in the wilderness was ended, Satan fled as the scripture promises, and Jesus was immediately rescued from death by starvation, exposure, and this trying encounter with a being so powerful as to be deemed the greatest angel created by God. There was intimidation, and an appeal to every form of lust known by any person. This came in a more intense and dramatic manner, and at a time of greater need and want (desperate lack,) than any person had ever endured. This victory over Satan gave Jesus the moral high ground in every further encounter, so Satan used the people around Jesus for his future attacks.

It must be said that encounters with other evil spirits, in the remaining three years of Jesus time among us, were shown to have no such element of temptation or appeal to the humanity in which Jesus had been robed. All the evil spirits were submitted to him, and even at times begged the LORD to NOT cast them away into torment before the time of the coming judgment, which they know full well to be their end, and the final sentence to an eternity in that torment.

On a side note, if Jesus was to die or be drawn away from His great mission from God the Father, He would be here as a human, and never be able to make a way for man's reconciliation to God the Father. He would not be able to make a way for man to be allowed into the presence of God the Father in Heaven. At Jesus' birth, the angels of Heaven declared "Peace on Earth." This did not mean there would be no more war, or conflict, or violent crime against men who walk this Earth. It meant that there is now the very Peace of God living and breathing on the Earth. The only possible reconciliation of fallen, cursed man was now on Earth. Also, the angels announced Jesus' birth by saying, "Good Will Toward Men." This did not mean people would no longer wish detriment or anguish upon others, nor do things to oppress others. It meant that God now had a person living and breathing on the Earth toward whom His good will was directed. This good will is directed to mankind in general, in that man may be reconciled, and a way for him to enter the presence of God the Father was to be made. It would be this very Son of God, and Son of Man, who is here in human flesh, that was the instrument of bringing God's good will to man.

Jesus said that He did not come to this world to condemn men, nor to judge men, but that through Him they might be saved. Jesus is the Judge, and will sit upon a throne of Judgment, but His first coming to this Earth was not for that purpose. Jesus declared, during the days of His ministry, how some people on this Earth brought His judgment upon themselves, and how the world system was at that moment judged, but His task was not to execute that Judgment. He was declaring the spiritual status of these, and how there is no more a place for the recovery of these.


We have a Savior who was touched by our infirmity. He knew the limits and frailties of the human body. He knew first hand all the different types of pain felt by humans. Jesus understood the difficulty of learning and trusting that which is not so obvious. Since there is no mention of Joseph, the husband of Mary, mother of our LORD, it is clear that the man (likely being older than Mary) had passed away from this life. This is confirmed as Jesus was upon the cross, and instructed the Apostle John to treat Mary as his own mother, and for her to consider John as her own son. Jesus made certain that there was someone to care for Mary in the last days of her old age. We have a few mentions of the LORD's family in the remainder of the New Testament scriptures, and we are convinced by these passages that Mary lived some years after those events.


Anyone who has lost a beloved parent knows that pain. It hits hard, and the soul is left with a gaping hole that nothing can fill. Jesus knew all manner of emotional pain from being slighted and ridiculed by this world, and He certainly had disturbing encounters with the powerful people of this world's system. Jesus stood before priests, governors, and kings. Jesus knew that dread of being opposed and denounced. He had the praise of men, and had it turn to disdain, and calls for His crucifixion. Jesus knew what it was like to have friends and even family turn from Him, and flee, rather than stand with Him in His darkest hours.

Jesus' most trusted few friends were not able to keep watch for an hour when He most certainly knew the enemies were coming to take Him away. The most desperate hours of His life were as He was in agony, praying in the garden. He wanted to dedicate that time to His last few moments of prayer to His Father in Heaven. He likely heard the snores of those He trusted with the important task of keeping a watch for the enemy. Three times He needed to wake them, and the third time, Jesus knew the enemy was at hand.

Anyone needing to have grace from the LORD should first know this LORD, of whom so much in written in scripture. If we are to trust this LORD Jesus Christ with our very souls, we need to understand who He is, what He has done, what His purpose is, and how we may recognize His working in our souls. Our enemy is a master deceiver, and a grand imitator, and tries to deceive us by counterfeit workings and false alarms against God's true working. Jesus knows, and thus God the Father knows, what it is to inhabit a human body & soul. God knows first hand the things we face, and is supremely capable of doing what is necessary in our hearts, as His Holy Spirit is given to redeemed men and women as a Comforter and Guide. Jesus saves His elect from this present evil world, and works in and through them by The Holy Spirit of God.

We can be confident that God knows not lead us astray, and God does not lead us into temptation that would damn us if we submit to it. We can be certain that God's Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost, is there for us to trust, and we need to recognize His leading. In this, we may avoid dangers, avoid wasting time saying what is unprofitable, or saying grand things to people who refuse to profit from the truth of it. We can surely and boldly proclaim God's goodness to people He has elected to receive it. We can have strength through trials, and we can have boldness to bring prayers and petitions before Him on His Throne of Grace. All these things are available to those who are right and submitted to God. These people are made into new creatures, and stand as beacons to this present evil world of the right and good things.


It is also, true that the people that God saves are a testimony of God's righteous judgment upon the world. The people who are of the world, and promote the system of this world, are convicted by the presence, words and manner of these true children of God. God promised this as His Holy Spirit is given for these purposes:


It is vital to see these things. We have in our hearts, as believers, the power to stand true before the wicked world. With God's Holy Spirit in our hearts, our testimony is accompanied by Gods power to convict and convert, and to show sinners how the Judgment that Jesus had proclaimed was certain, and had been sealed by the God of Heaven.

Please forgive typo's, and bad choices using SpellCheck in any of what I posted above. Also, there may be minor issues that could be corrected, but the Edit feature is not working for these posts, and our subsequent discussions might be the best way to fix these things.

Avid said:

Please forgive typo's, and bad choices using SpellCheck in any of what I posted above. Also, there may be minor issues that could be corrected, but the Edit feature is not working for these posts, and our subsequent discussions might be the best way to fix these things.

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Well Done! While I might differ on the interpretation of John 16 that you gave you show that you are well read and articulate.

Separate yourself from the world and see how long it takes for you to be proud of your holiness.

There are only two results from such practices: you are robbed of all peace because you can't live up to the standard or you become so self-righteous that you rely on your self instead of on Christ.

twin1954 said:

Well Done! While I might differ on the interpretation of John 16 that you gave you show that you are well read and articulate.

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This is probably the very thing I meant that I should have said it better or differently. Low battery...

I strongly agree with conscientious opposition to worldly conformity.

That being said, I don't believe in conservative people trying to police others over subjective externals. One person's supposed bad habit might be another person's chosen witness means (e.g., Christian fish tattoo on wrist <><, etc., or whatever).

What we need to concentrate on individually is daily prayer and Bible reading, and thes activities are more likely to produce God honoring strong witness, than being negative about other people's subjective externals.

SaintJoeNow said:

now faith said:

For being saints,or for not drinking the kool aid?

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Did you mean to say "alcohol"?

Do you think Kool Aid and alcohol are the same thing?

I've NEVER heard anybody preach against Kool Aid.

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St.Joe,
There is a terrible thing that happened in Guyana almost 40 years ago. A fellow named Jim Jones set up a cult colony (Jonestown,) and was doing questionable things. At one point, a US Congressman went to Guyana to see if something should be done about it. The long story short was that they shot him to death, and his entourage, then made a suicide pact. It is an erroneous report, but, supposedly, the whole 900+ group of people in the cult colony drank Kool Aid laced with Cyanide poison. They found the people all lying in family groups in multiple layers, rotting in the heat.

The error may be considered a questionable conclusion, but that report is what everyone uses for the quip. If you are THIS SOLD OUT to your CULT, you will drink what you know to be poison laced Kool Aid, if you are told to do that by trusted leaders.