So our government DOES pay for abortions then! Good that someone finally acknowledges it.
I mean, Bayer and Pfizer might provide other awesome drugs, but OHMIGOSH they make the pill! Can't invest in them!
Keep stretching guys.
"[T]heir money going to pay for abortions in China" is a factually incorrect statement. The money belongs to a Chinese business, not to Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby transferring its money to a Chinese company in exchange for some service, good, or product, renders the money the property of the Chinese company and the Chinese company the owner of the money, and at this point the money is no longer Hobby Lobby's.
There is no hypocrisy or contradiction here. Hobby Lobby is protesting the use of its own money to pay for 4 contraceptives, not any and all contraceptives, but 4 contraceptives. The money in your example belongs, not to Hobby Lobby, but to a Chinese company. You are comparing apples to oranges. Consequently, there is no hypocrisy or contradictory behavior here on the behalf of Hobby Lobby. Nice try.
Wrong. Abortion pills do not cause abortions, people who have abortions are the the cause of abortions.
This is about Hobby Lobby hypocrisy, and you missed the point - Purposefully at that.
You missed my point.
If Hobby Lobby is supporting and funding birth control because they invest in those companies, then our government supports and funds abortion because it funnels money to planned parenthood.
No, I didn't miss your point. I just disagree with it.
I work for Home Depot, right? Most people know my stance on same-sex marriage, right? So am I a hypocrite because I work for a company that offers same-sex benefits and many other benefits and resources to the LGTB community?
Wrong. Abortion pills do not cause abortions, people who have abortions are the the cause of abortions.
This is about Hobby Lobby hypocrisy, and you missed the point.
Technically, though, they're not paying for it. At least not directly. Under the ACA, Hobby Lobby is required to pay money to an insurance company in exchange for insurance coverage for its employees. An employee of Hobby Lobby could then go to her pharmacy and request a contested contraception (like of the abortifacient variety). The insurance company hired by Hobby Lobby pays. The owners of Hobby Lobby interpret this as paying for contested contraception.
Even if Hobby Lobby pays an insurance company in exchange for a plan that does not cover said birth control, this could still open the company up to identical hazards if that insurance company provided other customers with plans that did extend those forms of birth control. When a business pays an insurance company, the money goes into a "pool" so Hobby Lobby's money becomes indistinguishable from other money paid by other corporations.
Also, consider that the women employed at Hobby Lobby are not prohibited from paying for those very contraception options out of their own pocket -- which is presumably filled with money that comes directly from Hobby Lobby. So if cutting a check to an insurance company doesn't transfer responsibility, which is Hobby Lobby cutting a check to a woman any different?
Consider finally that all of our taxes go to fund things we might find unconscionable: wars, social safety nets, government officials who officiate gay marriages in courthouses or city hall, etc. This is unavoidable.
[serious];65312379 said:mifepristone, the "abortion pill," is not required under minimum coverage set up by ACA. Hobby Lobby is saying they don't want to pay for synthetic progestogen hormonal birth control because they have a religious conviction that it causes abortions even if it doesn't. Since religious beliefs aren't held to a standard of true or not true, there is no obvious way of keeping such a ruling from preventing access to any arbitrary procedure. Nor is there any legal distinction between the religious belief that BC is wrong and the religious belief that blood transfusions are wrong.
Nobody said you were a hypocrite. Please try not to twist this into saying I called you a hypocrite. This is not about you - I don't care where you work.
However it is about you in the way you are in denial about Hobby Lobby's hypocrisy.
Hobby Lobby invests in the pills but won't allow their employees to get those pills through their insurance.
Invest is another word for paying for a good or service. If they are investing in companies that manufacturing the very drugs they think causes abortions, then this statement;They invest in the COMPANIES that manufacture the pills, AMONGST OTHER THINGS.
Invest is another word for paying for a good or service. If they are investing in companies that manufacturing the very drugs they think causes abortions, then this statement;
"...we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill."
...is false. They do.
By paying for the creation of these drugs they think cause abortions, then they are directly paying for what they think are "drugs that might cause abortions"
Invest is another word for paying for a good or service. If they are investing in companies that manufacturing the very drugs they think causes abortions, then this statement;
"...we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill."
...is false. They do.
By paying for the creation of these drugs they think cause abortions, then they are directly paying for what they think are "drugs that might cause abortions"
Whoa here. We may disagree, but it is not untenable at all to understand indirectly money from Hobby Lobby based on a action they are willing to engage in will go help pay for abortions in China.
Well seven bells, they probably employ women who've had abortions.
HYPOCRITES.
Like I said, keep stretching. These companies they invest in also make other things.
This is the real issue. Since religious beliefs are not held to a standard of truth, really anything the business (owner) doesn't want to do can be avoided by claiming it conflicts with religious belief. Don't want to pay corporate taxes? Claim it's against your religious beliefs to pay taxes. Don't want to serve minorities? Claim your God wants you to be free to do so.
This is a rabbit hole that needs to be closed.
Invest is another word for paying for a good or service. If they are investing in companies that manufacturing the very drugs they think causes abortions, then this statement;
"...we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill."
...is false. They do.
By paying for the creation of these drugs they think cause abortions, then they are directly paying for what they think are "drugs that might cause abortions"
Invest is another word for paying for a good or service
Under these facts, I am inclined to think it is perhaps untenable to believe Hobby Lobby is indirectly supporting abortion in China. I find this line of reasoning supporting some rather absurd outcomes. Based on this reasoning, consumers in America, purchasing products made in China, by a Chinese company, are also indirectly supporting abortion. I just think it's too remote to allege indirect support.
You are playing too loosely with terminology here.
Invest is not at all another word for "paying."we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortionsYou are equivocating the meaning of words to support your allegation their statement is false. The fact is, it is not true the word "invest" is another word for "paying" and under these facts the word "paying" in the statement is not idnentical or another word for "invest."
Your antipathy towards Hobby Lobby is very transparent, especially when you resort to the irrational and illogical equivocation of words.
Well seven bells, they probably employ women who've had abortions.
HYPOCRITES.
Like I said, keep stretching. These companies they invest in also make other things.
You said it, not me.
I'm merely applying your logic.
I love this, actually.
I'm actually willing to let Hobby Lobby be called a hypocrite because I can finally say with assurance that the US Government does indeed pay for abortions, since it seems that "investing" or "sending funds" to an organization that manufactures or makes birth control pills means funding those pills, and employing workers of a country that mandates abortion means funding abortion.
Ergo, the US Government, through sending funds to Planned Parenthood IS actually funding abortions.
Unless, of course, the logic here is fuzzy...y'all tell me...
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