historical evidence

ViaCrucis · Feb 26, 2015

Regardless of whether the writings of the New Testament are entirely true in all that they say about Jesus or not is an issue independent of the fact that these are writings that speak of an actual person having lived at a specific time. The texts which make up the New Testament are certainly biased, but bias about a person doesn't change the fact of whether or not that person actually existed.

There is such a thing as irrational skepticism. How much evidence is needed to convince me that the earth is round? Mathematical? Photographic? Going into space and seeing it with my own eyes? At a certain point my skepticism becomes irrational.

-CryptoLutheran

Hawkins · Feb 27, 2015

Eishiba said:
I apologize to anyone who feels I'm not responding. I just check back here after a few hours. I don't really believe anything in the Bible in the first place. There is alot of stuff that is a complete abomination. My thoughts were, if I can find any kind of historical evidence on Jesus, it would prove that Jesus existed. I'm under the influence that the New Testament should never have been put with the Old Testament because the OT makes God look worse than Hitler. But if I can prove to myself that Jesus existed, then I can at least have the understanding that he existed. The Talmud actually mentions him and is said to have been using sorcery to perform is miracles, which seems to help me a little.

Jewish history Flavius Josephus in 1st century formally recorded Jesus, his brother James and John the Baptist in his history book about the Jews. Historians generally agree that Jesus existed but some would reject how Josephus described Jesus, as Josephus even mentioned how Jesus was crucified and resurrected. Some historians thus believe that these descriptions were added later on by Christians, yet perhaps not. Historians in general won't reject what has been written about Jesus' brother James and John the Baptist such that Jesus existed as mentioned in the part involving James and John.

The nature of history is that you need to put faith in the writers for what is said. Or otherwise there's no history. The legitimacy of history is based completely on your faith in those who wrote it. Today, we have video, audio records to make a witnessing more legitimate. In ancient times, however, nothing can be more legitimate than the direct witnesses martyred themselves for what is written down.

OT is for God to eradicate the Canaanites such that Israel can survive to bring forward God's salvation plan. He did so as a necessity in order to save more human souls. He chose to kill the already dead (the unsaved) in order to preserve those still can be saved (i.e., human till today and the coming future). Or else Israel could have been wiped out by the cruel Canaanites which will put God's salvation to an end.

lesliedellow · Feb 27, 2015

Eishiba said:
If one is to have any way of knowing if Jesus from the Bible existed, then there has to be some kind of resources or documents outside of the Bible. You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible right. If Jesus went around, preaching all the time, preforming miracles, and suffered a terrible death, wouldn't any writer or author that saw him, not write about him? You mean that no one wrote a piece about the miracles Jesus performed? No one wrote about him making the blind man see? How many people did he do that in front of? This would have been supernatural. Certainly there are sources outside of the Bible that have written about things he did, or anything about him.

There are large numbers of early writings about Jesus, both inside and outside the Bible, but if they don't say what mythicists want to hear, they are automatically "biased".

It is as easy to find somebody who earns his living as a historian, and who doesn't believe that Jesus of Nazareth existed, as it is to find a biologist who does not accept the theory of evolution. Mavericks might exist, but they are very thin on the ground.

Eishiba · Feb 27, 2015

Hawkins said:
Jewish history Flavius Josephus in 1st century formally recorded Jesus, his brother James and John the Baptist in his history book about the Jews. Historians generally agree that Jesus existed but some would reject how Josephus described Jesus, as Josephus even mentioned how Jesus was crucified and resurrected. Some historians thus believe that these descriptions were added later on by Christians, yet perhaps not. Historians in general won't reject what has been written about Jesus' brother James and John the Baptist such that Jesus existed as mentioned in the part involving James and John.

The nature of history is that you need to put faith in the writers for what is said. Or otherwise there's no history. The legitimacy of history is based completely on your faith in those who wrote it. Today, we have video, audio records to make a witnessing more legitimate. In ancient times, however, nothing can be more legitimate than the direct witnesses martyred themselves for what is written down.

OT is for God to eradicate the Canaanites such that Israel can survive to bring forward God's salvation plan. He did so as a necessity in order to save more human souls. He chose to kill the already dead (the unsaved) in order to preserve those still can be saved (i.e., human till today and the coming future). Or else Israel could have been wiped out by the cruel Canaanites which will put God's salvation to an end.

For your second paragraph, WHAT IF, what they wrote is actually wrong?

In Deuteronomy 21:10 God says, "When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when she was captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. If you are not pleased with her, let her go whereever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her."

How awful is that? Basically take her as your wife, do what you want and if your not pleased, let her go. Thats basically rape. If your a man, would you expect a woman, who you have just killed her family in front of her, to be your wife? If your a woman, would you stay with this man? He just killed your family in front of you. Did God have no feelings for this poor woman? The OT is an abomination.

GoingByzantine said:
Why don't you believe things in the NT?

Why don't you believe the Book of Mormon? Or the Quran?

Radagast · Feb 28, 2015

Joshua260 said:
Yes. There are multiple historical attestations to the existence of Jesus of Nazareth.
The info is readily available on several sites. I didn't read through this one, but this site generally gives good info:
Did Jesus really exist? Is there any historical evidence of Jesus Christ?

There's more historical evidence (even leaving out the Bible) for Jesus than there is for most other historical figures. That's why every legitimate historian accepts that Jesus existed.

Eishiba · Feb 28, 2015

Radagast said:
There's more historical evidence (even leaving out the Bible) for Jesus than there is for most other historical figures. That's why every legitimate historian accepts that Jesus existed.

Just because someone in the past wrote about him, unless they actually saw him, it doesn't make it historical evidence. If thats false, then I can write about Santa and it will be historical evidence that Santa exists right?

FreeinChrist · Feb 28, 2015

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Alithis · Mar 5, 2015

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historical evidence

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