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Errr... we are not the ones advocating deprogramming the opposition...I say go ahead. You want to radicalize the right even further? Do it. Accelerate.
I say go ahead. You want to radicalize the right even further? Do it. Accelerate.
Egging it on? Or simply recognizing the consequences of said policies if they were to be implemented? If MAGA conservatism is simply unacceptable politically in the USA, which I am told is a democracy, to the point where said people need to be deprogrammed and re-educated, what would you expect to be the response? Is the right going to harden against a perceived threat or go more soft? You're going to encourage a reaction and unless the will of people like Hilary Clinton is like Iron. That is they simply want to crush their enemies and will use any method at their disposal to do so. Which I wouldn't be surprised if they did mind you.Easy for you to say when you live in NZ, as far away as humanly possible from the consequences of egging this on.
You mean you are not advocating deprogramming of the opposition as someone part of the right/conservative movement, correct?Errr... we are not the ones advocating deprogramming the opposition...
Egging it on? Or simply recognizing the consequences of said policies if they were to be implemented? If MAGA conservatism is simply unacceptable politically in the USA
which I am told is a democracy, to the point where said people need to be deprogrammed and re-educated, what would you expect to be the response?
Is the right going to harden against a perceived threat or go more soft? You're going to encourage a reaction and unless the will of people like Hilary Clinton is like Iron. That is they simply want to crush their enemies and will use any method at their disposal to do so. Which I wouldn't be surprised if they did mind you.
Going further to the right isn't necessarily a bad thing mind you.
Why do you think going to the right is a bad thing? Do you like the progressive direction of the current factions? GOP, MAGA and Democrats?Says you. Some of us actually have to live here.
When the political right is in the majority, the media always asks " how will _______reach across the aisle" to appease Democrats?"political reprogramming is not something we're supposed to do in the USA),
Why do you think going to the right is a bad thing? Do you like the progressive direction of the current factions? GOP, MAGA and Democrats?
So you prefer the status quo direction of the Establishment GOP and Democrats? The former being mostly concerned with GDP and Neoconservative wars abroad and the latter being mostly concerned with destroying any semblance of traditionalism/Christianity in the USA?No, but I don't think going to the right is the answer. When you're trying to avoid extremism and you've just seen several examples of what going as far right as some people want to go leads to (murder, death threats against government officials, non-functional government, etc.), it makes sense that you wouldn't want to go further right, just like how the violence and instability of that weirdo left-wing "autonomous zone" set up in Seattle a few years back made tons of people (myself included) who may have otherwise had some sympathy for individual causes that the people doing that said they were about (e.g., police accountability) stop and say "Ohhh...well, actually, no, I don't want what these people are offering, even if some of their platform seems like it would be something I would agree with."
That's the trouble with discussions of left and right in the context of our two-party system, especially when the society itself is as polarized as it currently is (which doesn't benefit the average person at all; only the elites, who are at least united in the fact that they should have all of the power and money): Since what we empower by voting for either party are their party platforms, and not everyone will agree with everything in a party's platform (obviously), it leaves those of us who maybe lean to the left/right but are not insane demagogues about it politically homeless. What realistic alternative is there to the Biden & Pelosi show is there for you if you're to the left? What realistic alternative to the Trumpist MAGA Party is there for you if you're to the right of Biden? The answer in both cases is none.
So talking about do we go left or do we go right is pointless in this context, since it's not like there are places to go along the continuum (the continuum itself still exists, just not when it comes to voting). There are two choices, and you just have to either pick one or sit it out.
I'm curious just how much further to the right you think US policy positions should move?So you prefer the status quo direction of the Establishment GOP and Democrats? The former being mostly concerned with GDP and Neoconservative wars abroad and the latter being mostly concerned with destroying any semblance of traditionalism/Christianity in the USA?
Going further to the right doesn't necessarily mean violence, at least by those who have gone further to the right. It's more likely the system in power and the elites in control will use violence to cement their power against said rivals.
I suppose I just don't understand why you want there to be only two bad choices. Or perhaps you don't want there to be two bad choices but have resigned yourself to the reality. Why should the American right be only trapped within this narrow binary? They should think outside their specific American paradigm, which they kind of are at the moment. MAGA sort of represents that tiredness with the establishment GOP and that's fine. That's how politics ought to operate and political change is slow. I would be quite happy for the American right to move more towards the MAGA side of things and continue moving in that trajectory past MAGA towards something different, especially if they're Christian.
I think it's funny to put Trump or any of the American Establishment right in that upper right quadrant especially when I can think of political thinkers and writers who are far more authoritarian than Trump ever was. Monarchists for instance or traditionalists (Of which Trump is neither). Trump was actually hamstrung by the American beurocracy. Whoever put that quadrant together is only thinking in terms of establishment GOP the Democrats and not any other right/left leaning thinker/movement.I'm curious just how much further to the right you think US policy positions should move?
Are you referring more to social policy or fiscal policy?
The reason I ask; when you look at where things are, further to the right doesn't merely border on extreme, it would be extreme.
Here's the political compass of the 2016 us election.
View attachment 337440
I chose to include that one because it's less cluttered than the 2020 version.
However here it is:
View attachment 337441
In matters of fiscal policy, even democrats are neoliberal right in the US.
It's my opinion that the 45~ years of neoliberal policy has been the detrimental force in US policy/practice. ymmv
Whoever put that quadrant together is only thinking in terms of establishment GOP the Democrats and not any other right/left leaning thinker/movement.
agreeThis is the problem I find with Americans, their political perspective is so narrow and they can't seem to think beyond the establishment or their founding.
agreeAs Christians especially we should be willing to accept political thoughts and Ideas which go beyond the constitution of the USA and the enlightenment. Neither of which we are bound to. Politics for instance should not be viewed as competition between people within the same system working together, but rather the distinction between friends and enemies.
agree.As for moving further to the right, I think a good policy the Republicans should get on board with is limiting the American Empire abroad. Instead of constantly seeking to expand USA influence everywhere and fight wars for 'democracy,' why not focus on the internal problems of the USA? Why not seek to solve the problems of inflation and illegal immigration? Doesn't seem anyone in power has the stomach to seriously do those things. Since the USA is an Empire it will always find an excuse to go abroad and fight.
This is where I'm unconvinced. The country has been moving socially left for years but more and more fiscally/politically right for almost 50 years. I don't see improvement in the rightward lurch.. ymmvI think moving to the right would stop that, much to the chagrin of the Neo-conservatives and the left.
The quadrant explains itself. It's far too narrow for it to mean anything and was clearly put together by a leftist of some variety. Trump and the Republicans are not furthest authoritarian right. Trump, the establishment GOP and MAGA broadly are still far too liberal in that they are bound to some conception of the USA and the constitution.Here's the source Political Compass. Methodology is explained.
agree
agree
agree.
I would include other issues such as domestic infrastructure, healthcare, labor/wage concerns, retirement/social security.. and dozens more.
This is where I'm unconvinced. The country has been moving socially left for years but more and more fiscally/politically right for almost 50 years. I don't see improvement in the rightward lurch.. ymmv
It's my opinion that the 45~ years of neoliberal policy has been the detrimental force in US policy/practice. ymmv
Trump is the closest thing to an antichrist that we've seen in generations. People follow him even though is evil is clearly laid out before them. Is the mark of the beast "MAGA", which Trump supporters wear on their foreheads?What do you think would happen if they actually attempted this?
Hillary Clinton: MAGA ‘cult members’ need ‘deprogramming’
Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton railed against supporters of former President Trump during a new CNN interview, comparing those who still support the former president after the Jan. 6, 20…thehill.com
So, do you support deprogramming the MAGA people?Trump is the closest thing to an antichrist that we've seen in generations. People follow him even though is evil is clearly laid out before them. Is the mark of the beast "MAGA", which Trump supporters wear on their foreheads?
Depends on the method.So, do you support deprogramming the MAGA people?
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