Does this trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the Cross involve being crucified with Christ, or the the crucifixion of the old man?
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A Christian in Gods eyes is One who is trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross for ones personal sin account.
I suppose I should have just got into the youth fellowship and there'd have been no probs. I wanted to be in something, but it never worked out, just my personality I suppose, a bit independent? I seen the "christian" kids at school who were part of christian groups and they didn't impress me much how they got on with each other anyway. Anyway teens can be immature...
I 've just been trying to get into a church for a bit but I find myself still critical of churches and christians to be honest.
I used to call myself a christian, and say I was if asked, but now I feel hesitant.
You don't have to wait until you fit in to the church, which does have a lot of problems, to be a Christian, to give yourself to God, to start praying earnestly, to start reading scripture intently to see what it has for you, and to start living for the Lord right here and now before any other changes are made.
What you are concentrating on is a lot of stuff. Past experiences, feeling, a like depression at times and a bunch of Christians that do not particularly impress you.Ok, a bit of history - I was taken to church services since I was before the age of four. Baptised as an infant, sunday schooled. But I never was really interest in joining youth organisations, the only thing I was willing to do was go to Sunday School. So unlike most teens I was never in a youth fellowship and just stopped going to church during my teens. I went a few times as a teen, completely by myself - unfamiliar churches too. Folks talked to me a bit after the service then pointed at a door and said there's the youth fellowship in there. Well for one thing I wasn't walking in there not knowing anyone! So I drifted. I still listened to loads of CCM music. I wasn't into anything else really (except renting out videos, reading mags ). Pretty depressed at times at not going anywhere and being asked about my weekends, and generally feeling like oddity. So just I just felt a total freak to other christians when they asked me things. Anyway I suppose I should have just got into the youth fellowship and there'd have been no probs. I wanted to be in something, but it never worked out, just my personality I suppose, a bit independent? I seen the "christian" kids at school who were part of christian groups and they didn't impress me much how they got on with each other anyway. Anyway teens can be immature.
So now in my forties and been through some atheistic phases, but really no idea what I quite believe, even though I know about loads of theology.
I 've just been trying to get into a church for a bit but I find myself still critical of churches and christians to be honest.
I used to call myself a christian, and say I was if asked, but now I feel hesitant.
I don't think faith in a particular understanding is what will help.
Faith I have read means Union with Christ.
But there comes a point were one must decide it seems to me.
On the other issue of Biblical inerrancy, I am not sure.
If someone tells me the Bible has errors, or if I start to think that it does it causes problems in believing.
Here's sort of how I think about it.
One could say that it's not the bible one is to have faith in but the events upon which the New Testament is based. But to know of those events does one not need confidence in the New testament record? If then as some people say the Bible has errors, what are these errors in particular? Because its easy to get the notion 'the Bible has errors' without knowing, or being able to state one single particular error in fact, and therefore I would have to suppose be also able to state the true way of things.
So this vague "the Bible has errors" notion comes from somewhere, but usually not actual demonstrated errors. It is more a case of a position, or a view a person without faith moves to sometimes from hearing difficulties discussed. Its a premature conclusion. But I have moved to that at times in my life particularly in childhood.
The person of faith continues to be confident in spite of difficulties, they believe they can be resolved, that they are due to lack of understanding, and won't turn out to be real errors.
But sometimes something else happens people conclude yes there are errors and continue to believe anyway - this is neo-orthodoxy. Its seems to be Karl Barth's and Emil Brunner's position.
OK so the question one must begin with is what constitutes a real error.
Spelling variations and minor wording variations are not errors. So there has to be a definite error shown imo - which would mean one must also know the truth, or one cannot be sure there is an error. Or can one know where there is an error without knowing what way things actually were?
But none of us are in position of Peter, or the first disciples. That is to say we all are in need of being told by hearing or reading about what took place, so we are dependent on the first disciples.
Additionally if there are actual errors - and one know what those are - the rest is not in doubt because of those.
So basically one comes with either a believing or a non-believing attitude to the Bible.
The difficulty is I sometimes feel non-believing about it all, but that maybe has to do with a climate of unbelief, criticism to some extent. point.
This is not what faith means. Faith is a belief in something that is not seen.I don't think faith in a particular understanding is what will help.
Faith I have read means Union with Christ.
Ok, a bit of history - I was taken to church services since I was before the age of four. Baptised as an infant, sunday schooled. But I never was really interest in joining youth organisations, the only thing I was willing to do was go to Sunday School. So unlike most teens I was never in a youth fellowship and just stopped going to church during my teens. I went a few times as a teen, completely by myself - unfamiliar churches too. Folks talked to me a bit after the service then pointed at a door and said there's the youth fellowship in there. Well for one thing I wasn't walking in there not knowing anyone! So I drifted. I still listened to loads of CCM music. I wasn't into anything else really (except renting out videos, reading mags ). Pretty depressed at times at not going anywhere and being asked about my weekends, and generally feeling like oddity. So just I just felt a total freak to other christians when they asked me things. Anyway I suppose I should have just got into the youth fellowship and there'd have been no probs. I wanted to be in something, but it never worked out, just my personality I suppose, a bit independent? I seen the "christian" kids at school who were part of christian groups and they didn't impress me much how they got on with each other anyway. Anyway teens can be immature.
So now in my forties and been through some atheistic phases, but really no idea what I quite believe, even though I know about loads of theology.
I 've just been trying to get into a church for a bit but I find myself still critical of churches and christians to be honest.
I used to call myself a christian, and say I was if asked, but now I feel hesitant.
It’s important to understand in what sense you can and can’t find assurance from baptism. Baptism isn’t magic. It doesn’t guarantee that someone who rejects God will end up in heaven.I am not sure about this - i know it point of difference amongst christians, and I know Luther counselled "remember your baptism" however I was listening last night to a sermon of Martin Lloyd Jones (calvinist) - and hes very much against taking assurance merely from having been baptised.
What does the Bible say that faith means?I don't think faith in a particular understanding is what will help.
Faith I have read means Union with Christ.
What does the Bible say that faith means?
If you are basing your knowledge off of what people tell you, you are on a long, rocky road of misunderstanding.
It is really a misnomer that people do not like to be told what to do. In matters of God, many people want to be told exactly who God is by someone else. People would much rather follow a theology of someone else or a church then to find the truth for themselves. That is an easy road for most that consists regualarly of a sunday service.I don't disagree with you, but why all the books, theologies, etc. If I go to a church I am supposed to listen to the minister. The first converts heard it from Peter and Paul - so for them it was based on being told by others.
When I go to church it seems at times like there are christians who rely pretty much on their minister to relay to them the what the Bible says and explain it. I feel I am wrong to be independent, that I should be more teachable. When I go to a church I have quite often not felt part of what is going on - that they are engaged in some program that I don't actually know anything about. Whereas in the past it was more the case one could go to a church and hear the gospel preached, the service was outreach oriented. But now the outreach has a different form (in some churches at least), its not the minister doing it, rather he's telling or organising the congregation to do it. Its aimed at training those who come to the services, to go out and reach others. I am not saying that is wrong, but its a shift from what I grew up with. And I don't know how to get into it, I think its a bit like having missed lessons in school.
Then having grown up going to church I began to get an 'understanding' of sorts and I could explain things to people, but I don't think this was faith. In fact I wondered at times had I explained the gospel wrong. I knew 'Jesus died for me', and often thanked God in a prayer for this. But merely knowing this and saying thanks isn't faith IMO, faith means something more like being taken out of myself.
I read your post, and the illustration of the chair. Some would describe it as a throne one is sitting on and that one needs to get off the throne, and let Jesus sit there.
What do you think of that illustration?
Christian faith is not 'beliefs' is my current understanding - faith is more outward towards a person, not self-regarding, not just assent to statements, even if it includes that.
Yet I find myself trying to believe the Bible inspite of people, including people who call themselves christian who are skeptical of the Bible. They don't hesitate much about calling themselve christian (unfortately) but they leave others uncertain.
So basically I feel very little confidence in what a lot of christians say - what they are usually explaining is just their version in a way, or some understanding that works for them.
I'll take a look at the book you mention
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