Hermaphrodite love

[an7222]

Can an hermaphrodite love someone? If yes, what must be the sex of the one he loves? Can they make sex?

 

[Father Gregory]

Sex isn't about plumbing.

 

[leecappella]

Can an hermaphrodite love someone? If yes, what must be the sex of the one he loves? Can they make sex?

It should make some wonder why no one has posted on this thread It might cause some to think like they never intended.

 

[mpshiel]

Can an hermaphrodite love someone? If yes, what must be the sex of the one he loves? Can they make sex?

As there are only 6 or 8 known fully functioning hermaphrodites (meaning full and total functioning sets of genitalia) - I'm guessing it is not a problem. If you are a fundamentalist or an Evangelical you can simply assume that anything you can't clearly find in the bible must be a sin and throw the person out or tell them that like gays they have been called to confused chastity. However I suggest that this is a non issue as all hermaphrodies and the hundreds of thousands of false-hermaphrodites or intersex tend by 18 or so to settle into a gender that they feel represents them the best and thus fall within some sort of perameters. As in, self indentified heterosexuality or homosexuality would become clear in thier self indentity as well as the gender of thier partner.

As for the literal questions, I must assume they are some sort of spoof: or are you suggesting that it is the construction of our genetalia which determines our ability to love (hence God must be unable to do so?). Or the stranger notion that if someone is infertile or has other sexual dysfunction issues they will be unable to have sex. The largest erogenious organ on the human body is the skin - I am sure two people committed to each other can work something out.

 

[an7222]

As for the literal questions, I must assume they are some sort of spoof: or are you suggesting that it is the construction of our genetalia which determines our ability to love (hence God must be unable to do so?). Or the stranger notion that if someone is infertile or has other sexual dysfunction issues they will be unable to have sex. The largest erogenious organ on the human body is the skin - I am sure two people committed to each other can work something out.

Are they alowed to marry the one they love? For example, if they seem more like a woman, but fall in love for another woman, are they alowed to marry?

 

[mpshiel]

Are they alowed to marry the one they love? For example, if they seem more like a woman, but fall in love for another woman, are they alowed to marry?

If you are speaking legally: This is first dependant on the country of origin and the consultation of specialist doctors who help the person determine thier birth certificate which is considered the standard for legal representation of gender. If they are in a country such as Netherlands, Canada, France, German, Spain and others then yes they are "allowed" to marry. In other countries where that is not legal they are not "allowed" to marry.

If you are speaking ethically or socially: First who they "seem more like" is irrelevant. There is a rather famous intersex person near where I live who is a singer for such films as Lord of the Rings and Galaxy Quest. Lisa was misdiagnosed as male intersex and given huge doses of testosterone to overcome the "false" estrogen until it was discovered that oops, the doctors messed up and that Lisa who always felt "wrong" as a guy was chromosomically a female and it was there was a functioning uterus hidden behind faux male bits. All the testosterone gave her an 8 octave range but also male pattern balding at age 21 and a very strong male face. Does that mean that Lisa is male because she "looks" male. No, Lisa identifies and is legally recognized as female. And a female who falls in love with another female is generally know as either bisexual or a lesbian. If you wish to discuss the morality of lesbian relationships, I suggest you try one of the dozens of threads currently available on this topic or start one of your own.

 

[CSMR]

If you are a fundamentalist or an Evangelical you can simply assume that anything you can't clearly find in the bible must be a sin

This is not the approach taken by fundamentalists and evangelicals.

 

[an7222]

If you are speaking legally: This is first dependant on the country of origin and the consultation of specialist doctors who help the person determine thier birth certificate which is considered the standard for legal representation of gender. If they are in a country such as Netherlands, Canada, France, German, Spain and others then yes they are "allowed" to marry. In other countries where that is not legal they are not "allowed" to marry.

If you are speaking ethically or socially: First who they "seem more like" is irrelevant. There is a rather famous intersex person near where I live who is a singer for such films as Lord of the Rings and Galaxy Quest. Lisa was misdiagnosed as male intersex and given huge doses of testosterone to overcome the "false" estrogen until it was discovered that oops, the doctors messed up and that Lisa who always felt "wrong" as a guy was chromosomically a female and it was there was a functioning uterus hidden behind faux male bits. All the testosterone gave her an 8 octave range but also male pattern balding at age 21 and a very strong male face. Does that mean that Lisa is male because she "looks" male. No, Lisa identifies and is legally recognized as female. And a female who falls in love with another female is generally know as either bisexual or a lesbian. If you wish to discuss the morality of lesbian relationships, I suggest you try one of the dozens of threads currently available on this topic or start one of your own.

So an hermaphrodite must be or a male or a female. They cannot be what just they are, an hermaphrodite. I cannot imagine what passes in the mind of them when they have to choose to be either one or another. It's a big violence society does to them!! it disgusts me!

 

[FadingWhispers3]

People should love as they mutually agree and if all are at a high enough mental/emtional maturity so that no one can be taken advantaged of. This includes hermaphrodites.

 

[Buzz Dixon]

Can an hermaphrodite love someone? If yes, what must be the sex of the one he loves? Can they make sex?

I'd say so long as the hermaphrodite picks a gender and sticks with it, no harm no foul.

This reminds of something than ran in the Army Times newspaper back in the early 70s. You'd think the Army Times letter column would be the last place where semantic/philosophic fancies would run wild, but run wild they did when the bureaucrats first tried instilling non-gender specific language into Army paperwork.

It was suggested that the perfect non-gender specific substitute for the generic "he" would be "h/or/she(it)" which in turn lead to a number of remarkable linguistic inventions, the one springing to mind most readily being the "h/or/she(it)-eating shark."

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

So an hermaphrodite must be or a male or a female. They cannot be what just they are, an hermaphrodite. I cannot imagine what passes in the mind of them when they have to choose to be either one or another. It's a big violence society does to them!! it disgusts me!

Again, there are very,very few in this world. Most children born, today, can have their DNA tested and will be raised accordingly.

 

[an7222]

Again, there are very,very few in this world. Most children born, today, can have their DNA tested and will be raised accordingly.

No matter how many people will have to suffer this violence in their life, but it's still a big violence to them. They did not choose to be born a hermaphrodite to suffer such a stupidity.

 

[Ananel]

I'd say as long as a hermaphrodite picks one partner and sticks with them, marries them and doesn't go swinging, I could care less what plumbing they were born with. After all, the father who created them in the womb (Psalm 139) apparently saw fit to give them that plumbing and then declare that celibacy is not a required ordinance (1 Corinthians 7:1-9 among others) and that it is not good for people to be alone (Genesis 2:18, and yes I am aware that it specifically says the man. Would you like to try and argue that this particular doesn't have a certain level of universality as the wife is then given to him and is not alone hereself).

I do not see fit to argue with the father in heaven. Let them marry that they are not alone, the intersexed and the rare 'true' hermaphrodite.

 

[Caylin]

I do not see fit to argue with the father in heaven. Let them marry that they are not alone, the intersexed and the rare 'true' hermaphrodite.

What about transsexuals?

 

[Ananel]

What about transsexuals?

*ponders* If I answer you, we will be dragged into a secondary debate over the legitimacy of homosexual marriage. I do not wish to derail a perfectly good thread on the subject of hermaphrodites, where none already exists.

If you wish to discuss transsexuals, do so somewhere else (either in a separate thread, as the psychological issue really is distinct from dual genitalia, or in a thread on homosexuality.). I will gladly answer you there, but I will not derail this thread and get it closed by leading it into topics heavily regulated and unrelated to the OP.

 

[Caylin]

*ponders* If I answer you, we will be dragged into a secondary debate over the legitimacy of homosexual marriage. I do not wish to derail a perfectly good thread on the subject of hermaphrodites, where none already exists.

If you wish to discuss transsexuals, do so somewhere else (either in a separate thread, as the psychological issue really is distinct from dual genitalia, or in a thread on homosexuality.). I will gladly answer you there, but I will not derail this thread and get it closed by leading it into topics heavily regulated and unrelated to the OP.

:shrug: Ok, I'll make a thread about it later.

 

[mpshiel]

So an hermaphrodite must be or a male or a female. They cannot be what just they are, an hermaphrodite. I cannot imagine what passes in the mind of them when they have to choose to be either one or another. It's a big violence society does to them!! it disgusts me!

I fail to understand your vehemence on the matter. They do not "choose" as it were but rather they express what identity suits them best. Again I cannot believe you are actually speaking about hermaphrodites as the 6 or so seem to be expressing no real regret at thier living roles.

What used to happened to intersex children where they would go, "hmmm, okay it will be a girl" at birth and cut away anything that didn't fit that only to find out 10 years later that the child definately self identified as a boy would be a violence done to them. But thanks to advocacy that doesn't happen much anymore and the parents and doctors wait until the child demonstrates a particular gender identity.

Also with the advances of queer theory and body expression: androgyny, boy-grrls, drag kings, and queer identity there does not have to be a "I am male" or "I am a female" identity in adulthood if you don't want. You can be both or neither. That however won't be recognized legally. And if you want to start throwing stones at society, then I suggest you stop making the hundreds of gender assumptions you do every day. Our entire planet is set up to assess and view people as either male or female and some people if unsure are polite enough to deal with that but not many. Still, if you are a female with a strong chin, dress in men's clothes and have a brush cut - though you know you are female, don't get all bent out of shape if people sometimes call you sir. And if you don't want to practice this "violence" of assumption, just start asking pretty 18 or 21 year old females, "Excuse me, what gender do you preferred to be seen as." or better yet try that with macho guys.

If you can demonstrate that the very very few hermaphrodites that exist are upset with the binary assumptions of humankind, please do so. Otherwise it would seem that YOU are the one which is creating the issue, not them. And that doesn't seem to actually indicate a concern over thier situation, just your imagined response.

 

[rnmomof7]

I fail to understand your vehemence on the matter. They do not "choose" as it were but rather they express what identity suits them best. Again I cannot believe you are actually speaking about hermaphrodites as the 6 or so seem to be expressing no real regret at thier living roles.

What used to happened to intersex children where they would go, "hmmm, okay it will be a girl" at birth and cut away anything that didn't fit that only to find out 10 years later that the child definately self identified as a boy would be a violence done to them. But thanks to advocacy that doesn't happen much anymore and the parents and doctors wait until the child demonstrates a particular gender identity.

You are right MS.
Do you remember the twin study that was always taught as proving sexual identity was always environmental and taught behavior.

So they used the study where one male twin was accidently damaged during his circumcision .
They removed the penis and constructed a vagina, then gave female hormones at puberty .
They said that child did well and identified as a female.

Only years later did the "woman ' come forward and say that "she " always felt male, and wanted to function as a male (which I believe is what he did )

As a parent i know it would be difficult to say we have a baby , but we still do not know what it is .

Today people have the benefit of genetic testing and can pretty safely go with that ID.

But this is a traumatic event in any family and especially difficult for the child.


We are defined by society by our sex, so it is not only a medical problem, but an emotional and social problem for the child .

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

No matter how many people will have to suffer this violence in their life, but it's still a big violence to them. They did not choose to be born a hermaphrodite to suffer such a stupidity.

Actually, we don't know what kind of lives they live to know their feelings, and how they choose.
We are talking about a peson who cannot represent hinmself, thus all is speculation.

 

[mpshiel]

You are right MS.
Do you remember the twin study that was always taught as proving sexual identity was always environmental and taught behavior.

So they used the study where one male twin was accidently damaged during his circumcision .
They removed the penis and constructed a vagina, then gave female hormones at puberty .
They said that child did well and identified as a female.

Only years later did the "woman ' come forward and say that "she " always felt male, and wanted to function as a male (which I believe is what he did )
.

His name was David Reimer and he was suppose to "prove" that environment was all that mattered, except that he couldn't take not being male anymore.

Sadly due to the media attention and living such a conflicted life: returning to being male but staying in the same area (rural manitoba) only increased his feeling of isolation and "freak" and he killed himself earlier this year.