Help with Matt 23:1-4

[Carl Emerson]

Matt 23:
1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples,
2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses.
3 Therefore, whatever they tell you, do and comply with it all, but do not do as they do; for they say things and do not do them.
4 And they tie up heavy burdens and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as their finger.

It is interesting that Jesus required compliance with the religious teachers, who, though accurate with their presentation of the Law and knowledge of the Scriptures, were corrupt of heart and complicit with His execution and the death of His followers.

We need to be careful today to likewise be mindful that - accurate presentation of scripture does not indicate a right spirit.

Discussion welcome.

 

[Soyeong]

Matt 23:
1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples,
2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses.
3 Therefore, whatever they tell you, do and comply with it all, but do not do as they do; for they say things and do not do them.
4 And they tie up heavy burdens and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as their finger.

In Deuteronomy 17:8-13, God's word gives priests and judges to make rulings about how to correctly obey the Torah that the people were obligated to obey. In Matthew 23:1-4, Jesus was recognizing that that the Pharisees had this authority by saying that they sat in the Seat of Moses and by instructing his followers to do whatever they said. Pharisees also criticized other Pharisees of being hypocrites, so Jesus was not the only Pharisee to do that, and the flaws that he was criticizing were not universal, so he was not criticizing all Pharisees. For example, in regard to the debates between Shammai and Hillel, Jesus was virtually in complete agreement with Hillel, and many of his challenges from the Pharisees were most likely by followers of Shammai. In Acts 15:5, it speaks about there being believers from among the party of Pharisees, so there were some who became followers of Jesus who did not cease to identify as a Pharisee, which included Paul (Acts 23:6), which means that most of the books of the NT were written by a member of a Torah observant sect of Judaism, and we are instructed to be imitators of him as he is of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1), which again is in accordance with following what Jesus instructed his followers to do in Matthew 23:1-4.

It is interesting that Jesus required compliance with the religious teachers, who, though accurate with their presentation of the Law and knowledge of the Scriptures, were corrupt of heart and complicit with His execution and the death of His followers.

We need to be careful today to likewise be mindful that - accurate presentation of scripture does not indicate a right spirit.

Discussion welcome.

Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, so he was much more zealous for obedience to it than the Pharisees. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weighted meters of the Torah of justice, mercy, and faith, so someone can have the appearance of accurately obeying the Torah while missing that the whole goal of the Torah is to teach us how to act in accordance with aspects of God's nature, which means that Jesus was not opposing their obedience to the Torah, but rather he was calling them to a higher level of obedience to it in a manner that is in accordance with its weightier matters, which is the way to know God and have eternal life.

 

[Carl Emerson]

We need to be careful today to be mindful that - accurate presentation of scripture does not indicate a right spirit.

 

[Soyeong]

We need to be careful today to be mindful that - accurate presentation of scripture does not indicate a right spirit.

Indeed, the Bible does not teach that we should have the right spirit apart from the truth of Scripture or that we should have the truth of Scripture apart from the right spirit, but rather we need to worship God is both spirit and in truth by having both the right spirit and a the truth of Scripture.

 

[Lost Witness]

Always find myself praying that the LORD keeps me from falling headlong into self righteousness and hypocrisy.
Admittedly, it's been a struggle.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Always find myself praying that the LORD keeps me from falling headlong into self righteousness and hypocrisy.
Admittedly, it's been a struggle.

A wise prayer...

 

[Lost Witness]

A wise prayer...

Keep feeling like I'm a Pharisee.
This is a tricky issue.

 

[Soyeong]

Always find myself praying that the LORD keeps me from falling headlong into self righteousness and hypocrisy.
Admittedly, it's been a struggle.

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so relying on what God has instructed is the way to rely on God, not on ourselves.

Keep feeling like I'm a Pharisee.
This is a tricky issue.

Paul never stopped identify as a Pharisee (Acts 23:6), so most of the NT was written by a Pharisee, and we are told to be imitators of a Pharisee as he imitated Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1), so it is good to feel like a Pharisee, and it certainly should not be used as a pejorative.

 

[Carl Emerson]

it is good to feel like a Pharisee

Paul was a redeemed Pharisee...

Feeling like an unredeemed Pharisee is not to be recommended. (and most weren't)

 

[Carl Emerson]

Jesus described them as "Sons of Hell" in verse 15...

 

[Lost Witness]

Paul never stopped identify as a Pharisee (Acts 23:6), so most of the NT was written by a Pharisee, and we are told to be imitators of a Pharisee as he imitated Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1), so it is good to feel like a Pharisee, and it certainly should not be used as a pejorative

"Watch out; beware of the leaven of the Pharisees"

 

[Soyeong]

"Watch out; beware of the leaven of the Pharisees"

Luke 12:1 In the meantime, when so many thousands of the people had gathered together that they were trampling one another, he began to say to his disciples first, “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so he was much more zealous for obedience to it than the Pharisees were. While Jesus criticize some Pharisees for their pride and hypocrisy, he never criticized them for obeying what God has commanded, though he did criticize them for not obeying God's law or for not obeying it correctly. For example, in Mark 7:6-9, Jesus said that they were hypocrites because they were setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faith, so he was not opposing their obedience to God's law, but rather he was calling them to a higher level of obedience to it that was in accordance with its weightier matters.

 

[Soyeong]

Paul was a redeemed Pharisee...

Feeling like an unredeemed Pharisee is not to be recommended. (and most weren't)

While some Pharisee has problems with pride and hypocrisy, one the whole they had a level of submission to God's word that would put to shame most of the people who refer to them pejoratively, and we should be exceeding what they were doing.

Jesus described them as "Sons of Hell" in verse 15...

In Mathew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faith. The goal of the law is to teach us how to know God through acting in accordance with these and other aspects of His nature, which is eternal life, so obeying the law while missing the whole goal of the law leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to.

 

[Carl Emerson]

While some Pharisee has problems with pride and hypocrisy, one the whole they had a level of submission to God's word that would put to shame most of the people who refer to them pejoratively, and we should be exceeding what they were doing.


In Mathew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faith. The goal of the law is to teach us how to know God through acting in accordance with these and other aspects of His nature, which is eternal life, so obeying the law while missing the whole goal of the law leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to.

Jesus was collectively calling them 'Sons of Hell' - who am I to disagree with Him.

After all they were instrumental in hating and killing Him and His followers. ( ...ask Paul !! )

Sadly their spirit lives on even in today's religious circles who stress the obeying without the relationship.

 

[Lost Witness]

Jesus was collectively calling them 'Sons of Hell' - who am I to disagree with Him.

After all they were instrumental in hating and killing Him and His followers. ( ...ask Paul !! )

Sadly their spirit lives on even in today's religious circles who stress the obeying without the relationship.

Struggle I'm having...
Saying Yes to GOD but not doing his Will :/

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus was collectively calling them 'Sons of Hell' - who am I to disagree with Him.

After all they were instrumental in hating and killing Him and His followers. ( ...ask Paul !! )

Sadly their spirit lives on even in today's religious circles who stress the obeying without the relationship.

You are incorrect, rather he was referring to the Pharisees that he was speaking to as being Sons of Hell. Not all Pharisees were hypocrites and many were followers of Jesus. We should obey God's instructions for how to have a relationship with Him and can't have a relationship with Him instead of obeying those instructions.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Struggle I'm having...
Saying Yes to GOD but not doing his Will :/

Psalm 51:9-10​

9 Hide Your face from my sins
And wipe out all my guilty deeds.
10 Create in me a clean heart, God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

Identify what you lack in your heart and ask for it...

If you ask anything according to His Will He will always grant the request...

 

[Carl Emerson]

You are incorrect,

You are welcome to argue with scripture.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut the kingdom of heaven in front of people; for you do not enter it yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is obligated.’ 17 You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold? 18 And you say, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the offering that is on it is obligated.’ 19 You blind men, which is more important, the offering or the altar that sanctifies the offering? 20 Therefore, the one who swears by the altar, swears both by the altar and by everything on it. 21 And the one who swears by the temple, swears both by the temple and by Him who dwells in it. 22 And the one who swears by heaven, swears both by the throne of God and by Him who sits upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the Law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may also become clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you too, outwardly appear righteous to people, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 and you say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves, that you are [sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33 You snakes, you offspring of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you will fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

 

[Soyeong]

You are welcome to argue with scripture.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut the kingdom of heaven in front of people; for you do not enter it yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is obligated.’ 17 You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold? 18 And you say, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the offering that is on it is obligated.’ 19 You blind men, which is more important, the offering or the altar that sanctifies the offering? 20 Therefore, the one who swears by the altar, swears both by the altar and by everything on it. 21 And the one who swears by the temple, swears both by the temple and by Him who dwells in it. 22 And the one who swears by heaven, swears both by the throne of God and by Him who sits upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the Law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may also become clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you too, outwardly appear righteous to people, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 and you say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves, that you are [sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33 You snakes, you offspring of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you will fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Scribes and Pharisees refers to at minimum two scribes and two Pharisees though I see nothing in the passage that indicates that what Jesus was saying extended beyond the people that he was speaking to or that if it extended to more than just those he was speaking to, I see nothing to suggest that he was speaking about all Pharisees. As with any denomination there are members who are less than stellar, so the Pharisees had their share, but it would be absurd to think that ever last one of them was a hypocrite, especially when Pharisees as a whole had a reputation for being righteous. Other Pharisees also criticized Pharisees for being hypocrites, so Jesus was not the only one to do that. Furthermore, there are other Pharisees like Hillel that Jesus was in agreement with and others like Nicodemus or the scribe in Mark 12:28-34 that he had positive interactions with.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Scribes and Pharisees refers to at minimum two scribes and two Pharisees though I see nothing in the passage that indicates that what Jesus was saying extended beyond the people that he was speaking to or that if it extended to more than just those he was speaking to, I see nothing to suggest that he was speaking about all Pharisees. As with any denomination there are members who are less than stellar, so the Pharisees had their share, but it would be absurd to think that ever last one of them was a hypocrite, especially when Pharisees as a whole had a reputation for being righteous. Other Pharisees also criticized Pharisees for being hypocrites, so Jesus was not the only one to do that. Furthermore, there are other Pharisees like Hillel that Jesus was in agreement with and others like Nicodemus or the scribe in Mark 12:28-34 that he had positive interactions with.

Let's hear what Paul said about it...

Philipians 3
3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.