Help me understand

[overnight]

THis is in the United Methodist Church. I currently have a friend who is seminary. She is serving a church as a student local pastor. She told me that the bishop over her did not believe in the resurection. Is that not a fencepost of basic Christianity? I am so confused about this and wonder how someone got to such a high office (or can make the claim they are Christian) without believing that Christ rose from the grave. When I asked my pastor about it she just said that as long as they don't preach it they can beilieve anything they want. This freedom to beilive what you want is a double edge sword of the UMC. I love it because for example I believe that speaking in tounges is a gift of the holy spirit but you do not have to have it to be saved. I beilieve in the virgin birth which I found out that other UM preachers do not. However it gives the UMC the appearance of being wishy-washy.

Thoughts.

 

[vibrant]

you have ever reason to be increduous about this.

some subjects are complex and we admit that we don't have a God-like understanding of it all, but others aren't and are the foundation of what your faith is based on.

 

[WesleyJohn]

.

 

[Celticflower]

Thankfully all the UMC pastors I have known DO believe in the resurrection!
Wonder how some pastors cannot and be pastors since the resurrection is integral to our hope of salvation and included in the creeds and afirmations typically used in the worship service.
If I encountered a pastor who did not believe in the resurrection, I would definately call him out on it. And depending on his response it might lead to him being brought up before Pastor-Parish relations.

 

[herev]

Bless you. I am a local pastor, one year from commissioning as a probationer. I, too, worry about our bishops and their liberal beliefs. My own bishop is (I believe) very liberal, but, I must say, she upholds the Discipline. I agree with you, there are certain things that ought to be a given in our belief system (for me the apostles' creed) and anyone who professes otherwise ought to not be in authority. However, do not be swayed. We NEED people who are like you in the church to help change and correct the current leanings of the church. Be bold, be careful, and be patient!

 

[overnight]

I agree with you, there are certain things that ought to be a given in our belief system (for me the apostles' creed) and anyone who professes otherwise ought to not be in authority. However, do not be swayed. We NEED people who are like you in the church to help change and correct the current leanings of the church. Be bold, be careful, and be patient!

AMEN! heyrev you help me put it into perspective. Just as some intesting thoughts a leader in a church that I spoke with at annual conference said that the UMC was headed back toward its conservative days. This person was quite upset about this but I didn't fight with them I just prayed for them. Secound whenever I tell any higher up person in the UMC that I plan on going to Asbury Theological Seminary the first words out of their mouth is "That is a nice Conservative seminary". I would almost bet money that if I told people I were going to Garret of Dubuque I wouldn't hear that it is liberal.
People today seem to be afriad to be conservative because it has the stigma of being bible beater, or close minded, or uptight whatever you want to say. I for one am glad that I am a conservative. At least when it comes to theological issues.
Peace and Love

 

[vibrant]

I agree with you, there are certain things that ought to be a given in our belief system (for me the apostles' creed) and anyone who professes otherwise ought to not be in authority.

didn't want to go all out and say that in my post but there, it's said.

 

[elanor]

Another UMCer here. I usually fall into the liberal camp based on my stance on being an affirming church and dislike of the language of inerrancy, but I am in complete agreement with the folks here on the topic of this thread. When it comes to what I believe about Jesus, I stand firm on our faith as expressed in the Apostle's Creed and Nicene Creed. What good news do we have to bring to people if we don't believe in the redemptive work of Christ or the hope of resurrection? This is a difficult time for our denomination, and I pray that God will give shepherds after His own heart to lead us through.

 

[CryptoKnight]

As a UMCer who is greatly disturbed by this trend, I was happy to hear that this concern is an issue with the UMC, and they are discussing addressing it at the seminary level, to the point that I believe they have started withholding funds (or at least threatening to withhold funds) from some more liberal schools that are cranking out the "resurrection free" ministers, like the Iliff School of Theology.

Iliff is re-evaluating itself, and I hope the UMC pulls funds until they straighten out.
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2154967,00.html

As I have become much more active in the church, I've been meeting more and more ministers who are exceedingly liberal, and (at least out here) they tend to be alumni of Iliff. One pastor I know has upset his bible study courses by making such comments as "the stories of Noah, Job, and maybe even the flight from Egypt are merely Old Testament parables." I had a heart-to-heart with him about what he believes versus what is appropriate from the pulpit (or as a leader in a Methodist bible study).

 

[wonder111]

is this sort of like Bishop Spong type theology? where it's symbolic but not literal?

 

[CryptoKnight]

is this sort of like Bishop Spong type theology? where it's symbolic but not literal?

Spong's problem is he sees "inconsistencies" because he probably thinks the Bible was written in English. If he were to actually *study* the bible, get some information about translation issues and culture, he may find that most of the inconsistencies he sees are translation and cultural issues, not errors in the original source. What irreconcilable differences that *do* exist, he doesn't have the faith to claim he just doesn't understand them.

This is not to say that *I* am a traditional "Bible-is-infallible" believer. I *do* believe it is infallible, but I also believe that we misunderstand enough of what it says, and that many of the interpretations of the "infallible" crowd (such as women in ministry) are wrong. The Bible is not wrong, individual interpretation is.

I wonder if Spong can even recite the Apostle's Creed with a straight face...

 

[WashedClean]

I was raised Methodist and my grandfather was a UMC minister. He died many years ago, but I believe he would be sickened to hear this.

What on earth are they celebrating at Easter if they don't believe in the resurrection???

 

[CryptoKnight]

What on earth are they celebrating at Easter if they don't believe in the resurrection???

HOPE, or some such empty (in their worldview) sentiment. I was grumbling about this at our annual conference, and I made a few comments within earshot of some of the Bishop-hopefuls like "If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, none of us are gonna either!" and "All I ask is that whomever the next bishop is can recite the Apostles Creed with a straight face..."

I'm so bad, but I made one of them chuckle. For the right reasons, I hope.

 

[wvmtnkid]

What on earth are they celebrating at Easter if they don't believe in the resurrection???

Exactly! Why bother to preach the good news if you don't believe there is any? What hope do Christians have if not in the resurrection of Jesus? Isn't that the whole purpose? If Jesus didn't conquer death, what is our faith based on?