HELP! Can my church do this??

goodgirl · Nov 17, 2003

ok, posting this here (sorry) because I would like as wide a selection of opinions as possible.

Someone at my church, a new member, has been barred from voting for the vestry, because she hasn't made a financial pledge to the church. Now the fact that this person is unemployed shouldn't even matter. She was told she is "not a member" until she donates.

It's an Episcopal church.. but I think stewardship means more than money, and besides as far as I know the only requirements for membership are salvation, baptism and confirmation. ??

tell me pro or con what you think of this. I know tithing is important but this seems coercive to me.

goodgirl · Nov 17, 2003

any other thoughts? I've been trolling church websites and a lot of them seem to do this but then some don't and the one priest I know who isn't in my area says it "doesn't seem like grace" to him. I'm not sure what to think... I know it's important to give, but the policy seems unfair and sort of strange to me.

Blade · Nov 18, 2003

Can the church do this yes, I do not believe they should. Your heart is in the right place.

Lyle · Nov 18, 2003

Ummmm...... That's way messed up, shall we say. Is there any reason why they would do this? Such as bad standing, poor life (as in the way of sin). I don't see this approach as anywhere Biblical in any way otherwise.... But yes, people can do just about anything, it doesn't mean they should though...

Warrior Poet · Nov 18, 2003

Gods not a Democracy.

Biblically the church is way outta line there. First off there is nowhere in the bible that it tells people to be a member of the church, you dont take a class or get voted in, they didnt even meet in churches in the NT they met in homes. You are a member if you show up and spirtually contribute. The church then was lead solely by the holy spirit those in attendace ALL participated, there was no pastor, and the actually evagilising was done out side the "church" atmosphere to non-believers. The only good thing i got from your post was they let the "members" vote. That is about the only thing that runs along the biblical borders. There was to be a conses and the church did not move forward to one was made. In institutionalized churches the elders can over ride a vote made by the "members"....give me a break, elders were meant for spirtual guidence to those who needed it not to make decisions for everyone. These churches of today vote on laws, rules, officers, there is even a curch constitution in most of these places, they write there own, man made documents to "rule" the house of the Lord, something is wrong here people, something is very wrong. Money should be the last thing on these peoples minds, its a give take system based on love those that can give more do so to make up for those that can give alot.

Dear Lord help us.

Warrior Poet

stephen1964 · Nov 18, 2003

Goodgirl, I am a fellow Episcopalian who has done all I can to avoid vestry service in our church. I just don't feel called to that; but if I did I certainly wouldn't think that my pledge to the church should be a factor. What is next; voting power based on amount of annual pledge???

Don't forget Jesus' story of the poor widow who gave a small amount but it was all she had (Luke 21:1-4).

goodgirl · Nov 18, 2003

no reason... just policy. I should reiterate that they are now offering to make an exception bc the woman is unemployed... but I don't think the policy should exist at all.

I also just learned that not only was she barred from voting for vestry, she is not listed in the membership directory at all... I had thought maybe she was a member but not a "communicant in good standing" but apparently not!

She has volunteered for the church on a couple of occasions... I think if her time and talent are good enough for the church, her vote and her name ought to be too. It's kinda sad because otherwise this is a completely excellent church! But here, I think they are misguided.

lands21 · Nov 18, 2003

Truely a horrible story, I pray for you, your friend, and your church.

whitestar · Nov 18, 2003

Yea they are way out of line here... They SHOULD be asking her if she needs any help paying bills, buying food and so on. If I were her, I would be looking for another church. Talk about harsh!! Do you really think Christ would approve of a church acting this way?

God bless
whitestar

Hands&Feet · Nov 18, 2003

Men will always make rules not in line with the Spirit of Jesus. We will never avoid it completely. Offer compassion and friendship to this woman and minister the unconditional love of Jesus to her and the follies of imperfect men will fade away. Peace be with you.

goodgirl · Nov 18, 2003

thanks... again: now that they know she has no money they are being much nicer. My question was is this a proper policy. Based on this I think I'll speak to the church (I am in good standing, wheee, LOL) and try to get it changed.
thanks!

Lyle · Nov 19, 2003

goodgirl said:
thanks... again: now that they know she has no money they are being much nicer. My question was is this a proper policy. Based on this I think I'll speak to the church (I am in good standing, wheee, LOL) and try to get it changed.
thanks!

Speak to the church? Or the pastor? Many (if not all) times you stand up and denounce something in the presense of the whole church, it poisons it.... Be VERY careful!!!

goodgirl · Nov 19, 2003

ohno, I meant pastor, definitely! he's a reasonable guy and good Christian so I think he'll listen with an open heart.

any biblical ammo would be appreciated... as I won't have time before our meeting to really delve into it too much.

ForeverChristian · Nov 20, 2003

I hope this isn't too late but why don't you mention the story of the rich members of the church giving lots of money, but the Lord didn't pay any attention to them because they were giving from their riches. Now the poor widow only gave 2 copper coins, which a copper coin is only worth a fraction of a penny in today's time. But the Lord told the deciples to look at her because she is giving from her heart, not from all her riches. She gave all that she has to me, now she is a great person.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

May God bless you all of your days.

goodgirl · Nov 20, 2003

well as far as that goes, I think the point of the story is that she DID give, although she was poor... I'd think that was more in the pastor's favor than mine. Also, there is no set amount or even percentage that you HAVE to give... just a pledge. I guess you could pledge $100 a year if you wanted to.

It's not the amount that bugs me, it's the fact that it's required at all. Doesn't seem to leave much room for grace, or God's work in our hearts. Also it seems to encourage making rash promises, not knowing if you'll be able to fulfill them or not.

desi · Nov 26, 2003

goodgirl said:
ok, posting this here (sorry) because I would like as wide a selection of opinions as possible.

Someone at my church, a new member, has been barred from voting for the vestry, because she hasn't made a financial pledge to the church. Now the fact that this person is unemployed shouldn't even matter. She was told she is "not a member" until she donates.

It's an Episcopal church.. but I think stewardship means more than money, and besides as far as I know the only requirements for membership are salvation, baptism and confirmation. ??

tell me pro or con what you think of this. I know tithing is important but this seems coercive to me.

If the church is interesting in money to that extreme I would think twice about staying there. Money should not be a condition of membership, it is more of a side effect of membership. I've always been of the mind that if the church has to ask for money its doing something wrong because the money is more from God than the individual members, God provides.

walkwchrist28 · Nov 26, 2003

What is a vestry?

cube66 · Nov 26, 2003

To run a church like a business is to run a church into it's own demise.

Ben_Hur · Nov 27, 2003

"Vote" with your feet. But before you go, have some righteous fun with it and pledge "2 copper coins" ($0.02). You get your point across from two angles.

And then, overturn the cashier's desk screaming "My Father's house shall be a house of prayer!"

No. That's going a bit too far

Seriously, I would say that it if this is the ONLY thing that bugs you about the church, it is hardly enough to make a stink over. We should not be causing division in the church. But if there are other things that lead you to believe that church is on the wrong path, leave quietly, find a better church.

Stanfi · Nov 28, 2003

goodgirl said:
ok, posting this here (sorry) because I would like as wide a selection of opinions as possible.

Someone at my church, a new member, has been barred from voting for the vestry, because she hasn't made a financial pledge to the church. Now the fact that this person is unemployed shouldn't even matter. She was told she is "not a member" until she donates.

It's an Episcopal church.. but I think stewardship means more than money, and besides as far as I know the only requirements for membership are salvation, baptism and confirmation. ??

tell me pro or con what you think of this. I know tithing is important but this seems coercive to me.

No, I do not think it is right for them to be doing this. I agree that they should be reaching out to see if they can help this woman. However, I am guessing that the officers of this church are following the constiution of the church. I am a deacon in small independent church. Since we are independent we have our own constiuton. This is what we have to stand on we it comes to church business. So, I would says that is all the officers are doing is basically following the rules. So it sounds like the rules need to be changed to me.

HELP! Can my church do this??

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