Hell.....

thatbrian said:

Fire is almost certainly a metaphor, but if Jesus has to use "eternal fire" to describe what Hell is like, then it's obviously terrifying.

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No way of knowing if fire is a metaphor though!

antletems said:

No way of knowing if fire is a metaphor though!

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Common sense, which is the same way I know that Jesus isn't a vine, loaf of bread, giant floodlight, or door.

thatbrian said:

Common sense, which is the same way I know that Jesus isn't a vine, loaf of bread, giant floodlight, or door.

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No, its whats called as 'your interpretation' not common sense!

antletems said:

No, its whats called as 'your interpretation' not common sense!

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Jesus is a loaf of bread?

thatbrian said:

Jesus is a loaf of bread?

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I will not comment on that!

thatbrian said:

but if Jesus has to use "eternal fire" to describe what Hell is like, then it's obviously terrifying.

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God is an all consuming Fire.
The lake of fire is probably not the same thing, however, things burn up in it and will be no more.
after the Harvest the corn wil be saved and the chaff will be burnt, not saved.

<staff edit>

Why does it say Hell is a place of torment in the Bible then?

Its not God who chooses Hell.

Hell is presented in several different variations depending on one's culture and denominational beliefs. The most accepted mainstream Christian version, is a place of eternal torment, where sinners are punished physically by fire. The Greek version, Sheol, or Hades is less dramatic. Hades is a place where worthless (cursed) souls are deposited for all eternity (no physical torture, more like a spiritual torture, ie, purgatory) . The Jewish version of Hell (Gehenna') like Sheol is a place where cursed souls reside in perpetual purgatory. Gehenna is also recognized by some Christian denominations and shares the name "Valley of Ben Hennonm" with Jewish literature. In ancient times, a cursed place outside Old Jerusalem where some of the ancient kings of Judah had infants burned in fire as an offering to Baal, (Jeremiah 7:31). The Islamic version of Hell is similar to the Jewish version.

Not all Christians agree with the "eternal" aspect of Hell as a place of perpetual, never ending, torment. Many believe at the time of the Final Judgment, Death and Hell itself will be cast into the "lake of fire" and will be forever destroyed. A view supported by Scripture, (Revelation 20:14). Along with Death and Hell, the souls of those not found in the Book of Life are also cast into the "lake of fire", (Revelation 20:15). This is described in Christian theology as the Second Death, also mentioned in Revelation 20:14. So here we have a Scriptural account of the destiny that awaits Hell and it's souls, that doesn't quite match the most popular version of Christian Hell, (a place of eternal torment). How can Hell be "eternal" if it is destroyed and cast into the "lake of fire" on the final Day of Judgment ?

This brings up some interesting questions.. Is Hell and the "lake of fire" the same thing ? Are human souls cast into the "lake of fire" destroyed, or consigned to eternal torment ? I don't think, the Bible actually says. The idea is "assumed" because Revelation 20:10 says the Devil, the Beast (the Anti-Christ, Abomination of Desolation) and the False Prophet are cast into the "lake of fire" and "tormented day and night, forever and ever".

Is this a special punishment, reserved ONLY for these three figures alone, and NOT intended for normal human souls ?! Was the possession by Satan of the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet so complete and perfect, they became one in the same with the Devil, and so being totally and completely unredeemable, must also suffer his special fate of being utterly destroyed ???

The Scripture emphatically states, GOD has the power to utterly destroy the "soul", (Matthew 10:28). It is His creation and He has total power over its' continued existence, or immediate destruction. Same goes for angelic creations, like Satan. But do all the souls in Hell share the same fate as the Devil, the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet ??? Can souls in Hell still be redeemed ?!

During the three days in which Jesus lay in the grave, the biblical account says He "descended into Hell and preached the Gospel to the souls that were there", (I Peter 3:18-20). Why did Jesus do that ?! Will the souls already in Hell also be given a final opportunity on the Day of Judgment to repent and be saved, based on their newly acquired knowledge and acceptance of Jesus Christ as the Son of God and His testimony ?! Are these souls also given the opportunity to accept the blood sacrifice of Christ ? Wow ! There's a whole new "twist" on what Hell might, or might not be, huh ?!

I'm not saying this is my personal doctrinal belief of what Hell is, or what the final fate of those in Hell might be. I'm just repeating some ideas I've heard from others, so please don't stone me as a heretic... I'm still wondering myself, and I'm just throwing these viewpoints out there in the forum for purposes of discussion.

Your thoughts, opinions and commentary on the subject are welcomed. What do you believe Hell is ???

.

<staff edit>

Matthew 13:41-42
41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, 42 and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.

Matthew 25:46
46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Revelation 14:9-11
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If any one worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also shall drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured unmixed into the cup of his anger, and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

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What about the wrath of God in the OT then?

The idea that hell is not a real place comes from the attacks on Christians from non believers, people who want to turn God into a philosophical Idea. Those people that want to change the ideologies that faith is based upon. For instance, I ran into a person Who literally thought, God was an Idea, Who lived only in peoples hearts.

This is the result of modern attacks on the Christian Faith. Intelligent people exist on both side of the point of view spectrum. Sure God lives in peoples hearts, but not only in their hearts, Just the same as Sure it is hell to be outside of Gods presence, But hell is not just a philosophical idea, There is much talk in the bible of Hell and the smell of Brimstone and Revelation 21:8 Matthew 25:46 Psalm 9:17 Thessalonians 1:9 Matthew 13:50 Acts 2:27 Mark 9:43 Jude 1:7 Proverbs 15:24 Matthew 13:42

I could go on, but pay particular attention to Matthew 13:42 and Revelation 21:8 These are descriptive of hell and it being a physical place and not just a philosophy..

Remember, If you allow the devil to, he will take your wisdom and convince you it is fantasy. Don't allow such nonsense as this, We know that Human life was not created by a philosophical idea,. Nor will the punishment of hell be philosophical.

<staff edit>

Well, i believe what it says in the Bible about hell. Why should it not be true?

If you say what you say above then why believe 'anything' written in the Bible is true? You are cherry picking again my friend!

My biggest worry about this whole issue is when I was reading on Hell, And the things that will get a person sentenced to the second death.. Lying, Adultery, Sexual deviance, I have committed all of these sins in my life time, I am not perfect, But who is? I have no shame in confessing my sins publicly, Everyone here has sinned. I feel shame for my sins, And fear of Hell fire. I Publicly In front of witnesses confess my sins, And Ask That God forgive me of them. I fear hell And I fear the second Death.

1. Satan sinned first before Adam Ezekiel 28:15. Jesus said he beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. This goes along with Isaiah 14:12-14 with Satan being kicked out of heaven.

2. Satan tempted Adam and Eve in the garden and they sinned Genesis 3:1-6 after being warned; Adam first Genesis 2:17 before Eve was made from his rib.

3. Hell was originally created for the Devil and his angels and is noted as everlasting fire Matthew 25:41. This same verse was those men and women who will be sinners after the judgment of the nations for their treatment of Israel.
Verse 46; And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Luke 16:20-31 Jesus showed that hell was literal and the rich man wanted water to cool his tongue being tormented in the flame.
Our spirits are eternal and it is the body that has to be resurrected and our spirits have to be joined with a new resurrected body whether a believer or a sinner Daniel 12:2; Acts 24:15; 1 Corinthians 15; Revelation 20:5 which says, But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

4. Revelation 20:10 has the devil thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast or the antichrist and the false prophet shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.

5. Verse 11 will be all the sinners from Adam to the GWTJ who will be resurrected with resurrected bodies.
Satan has an indestructible immortal body and cannot be killed in the sense of annihilation. The sinners will have resurrected physical bodies otherwise there is no need for them to be resurrected and their spirits live forever otherwise they wouldn't be alive in hell right now or then as in the rich man's case.
Revelation 20:12 John saw the dead, small and great, stand before God. Dead men don't just stand literally if they are dead. Dead in this case would make more sense as in being spiritually dead in their sin which incurs the wages of sin which is death Romans 6:23.

6. They are judged according to their works and this means individual works as works of the flesh. Galatians 6:7.
The sea giving up the dead is the sea of humanity who are sinners and incorporate the dead in hell and this is what it means by death and hell delivering up the dead which were in them. So death and hell being cast into the lake of fire are the resurrected sinners who have indestructible and mortal bodies that cannot be annihilated just like the devil and his angels. Verse 15 confirms this by saying: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

7. So hell is real and literal and forever. Isaiah 66:23-24 says that all flesh which is on the new earth (verse22) that come to worship the Lord shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Just as the righteous having resurrected bodies that are immortal, sinners will have to.
Just as the righteous living forever in heaven which is a real place that Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us where the Father's house are many mansions John 14:2 the sinners will live forever in the lake of fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels in the place of eternal torment forever as children of the devil who is their father just like the righteous are children of our God John 8:44 children of the father of lies and 1 Thessalonians 5:5 God's children as the children of light.

8. Concerning purification as in purgatory is a wrong context understanding of 1 Corinthians 3:12-15.
Concerning UR is a wrong rendering of everlasting, eternal etc as ages. Anything eternal, everlasting, forever is literal as in never ending and not temporary. Things of earthly matters concerning this life that don't last are temporary. Also, the verses concerning the reconciling of the world is misconstrued.

9. For those who don't believe that eternal judgement is literal torment is mute because one it is not scriptural and two if it were true then one second would be too much because eternity is without time.
God does not send people to hell; he sends people who choose to go there because they refuse to serve him and he has the right to do that because he makes the rules as creator of all life and because he is a God of love that will protect the righteous from the rebels once and for all. God provides a way of escape to life with him and there is way unto man which seemeth right but in the end it leads to death Proverbs 14:12.

10. The first death for a sinner is spiritual and the second death is the sinner being thrown into the lake of fire alive and with an immortal physical body. So the annihilation of the body or the annihilation of heaven and the earth trying to prove hell being temporary etc. is not true. UR is a novel idea but not scriptural and hell being a metaphor or just spiritual and not Matthew 10:28.

11. God being a consuming fire is either purification as in 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 which is the believer's judgement of works with saints in heaven and not purgatory. It is also removal as such as in Hebrews 12:27-29 with the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Sin and physical death etc. will be removed on earth but the earth will not be annihilated for this is talking about when the millennial kingdom is set up and even when the new heaven and the new earth happen in Revelation 21:1.

12. The consuming fire of Revelation 20:11-15 is not annihilation because sinners will have indestructible and immortal bodies that will be able to be tormented but not die in the complete sense as in annihilation or being removed.

13. If Satan and his angels cannot be annihilated and the sinners have the same kind of body when they are resurrected then they will not be annihilated either. Jerry kelso

Shadowprophet said:

My biggest worry about this whole issue is when I was reading on Hell, And the things that will get a person sentenced to the second death.. Lying, Adultery, Sexual deviance, I have committed all of these sins in my life time, I am not perfect, But who is? I have no shame in confessing my sins publicly, Everyone here has sinned. I feel shame for my sins, And fear of Hell fire. I Publicly In front of witnesses confess my sins, And Ask That God forgive me of them. I fear hell And I fear the second Death.

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Same here buddy. I have sinned the same

topcare said:

I was taught that Hell was a real place so is it real or just a state of mind?

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Depends on whether you want to believe God or Satan. If you want to believe God and Christ, shut out all the liars and focus on the Word of God.

Satan wants people to believe that he is not real and neither is Hell (the Lake of Fire) because he knows it was created for him and his evil angels, and they will be there in eternal torment.

Job8 said:

Depends on whether you want to believe God or Satan. If you want to believe God and Christ, shut out all the liars and focus on the Word of God.

Satan wants people to believe that he is not real and neither is Hell (the Lake of Fire) because he knows it was created for him and his evil angels, and they will be there in eternal torment.

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I tried to like this one more then once, I would have if I could have,
So here is another like for this post that I came up with.