hell...

Why not read the scriptures for yourself then you will be able to answer your question?

Frankarmendariz said:

i read that people who die and go to hell aren't in hell at this moment, that they are in a waiting room waiting to be judged, and when it is the end of times, is when they will go to hell..... i also heard that people who died before Jesus' time went to hell but the good people who were in hell went to a place called 'bosom of abraham' which is a hell that they are being comforted untill Jesus comes and brings them to heaven. that there were two hells before Jesus. was any of this said in scriptures?

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The Old Testament doesn't have a notion of hell, or of heaven in the sense of a destination after death. In the OT the dead all go to Sheol and that's it.

In the inter-testimental period the idea of resurrection (into new physical life in a restored earth) comes to the fore - and along with it idea of Sheol starts to evolve into a waiting for that final resurrection.

Along side that there starts to evolve the idea of an alternative fate for those who arent fit for the resurrected world - in Daniel "... shame and everlasting contempt". In other writings something more vivid.

wayseer said:

Why not read the scriptures for yourself then you will be able to answer your question?

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The snag with that approach is that none of the texts that track the change of thinking through the 2nd Temple period are in most bibles except Daniel.

Part of the confusion comes from different words from the OT Hebrew, and the NT Greek. There are several words for an after life place, some good, some not: sheol, gehenna, lake of fire, death, hell, paradise, Abraham's bosum. (The latter for the place of believers prior to Christ Jesus' resurrection and the judgment.) Scripture also tells us that the lake of fire and sheol were not made for mankind, but for the devil and his followers.

Sheol is found in the Bible sixty-five times. It is translated "the pit" three times, "the grave" thirty-one times, and "hell" thirty-one times. Hades is used eleven times, being rendered "hell" ten times and "grave" once. Adding to the confusion is that two other words are also translated hell in the New Testament. These are Tartarus, which is found once and Gehenna, which is used twelve times.
The term "Hell" is commonly understood to mean a place of torment where the souls of the wicked go after physical death. This is true. However, because Hades in the New Testament and Sheol in the Old are variously rendered hell or grave, there has been some misunderstanding about what hell and the grave are. Before looking at these words though, we should first give our attention to the Greek word Gehenna, which is always translated hell and used in reference to the Lake of Fire. It is found in Matthew 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; and James 3:6.
Hell, Sheol, Hades, Paradise, and the Grave

Jesus said, 'When I am lifted up I will draw all men unto me'.

Frankarmendariz said:

'bosom of abraham' was this said in scriptures?

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Bosom of Abraham? Check out The Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31).

--David

DaLeKo said:

Bosom of Abraham? Check out The Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31).

--David

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But beware because it's a parable. It's as inappropriate to use it as a lesson in life after death as it is to use the parable of the sower as a lesson in agriculture.

ebia said:

But beware because it's a parable. It's as inappropriate to use it as a lesson in life after death as it is to use the parable of the sower as a lesson in agriculture.

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Agreed, but in answer to the OP's question: was any of this said in scriptures ...................................

Frankarmendariz said:

i read that people who die and go to hell aren't in hell at this moment, that they are in a waiting room waiting to be judged, and when it is the end of times, is when they will go to hell..... i also heard that people who died before Jesus' time went to hell but the good people who were in hell went to a place called 'bosom of abraham' which is a hell that they are being comforted untill Jesus comes and brings them to heaven. that there were two hells before Jesus. was any of this said in scriptures?

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no

Frankarmendariz said:

i read that people who die and go to hell aren't in hell at this moment, that they are in a waiting room waiting to be judged, and when it is the end of times, is when they will go to hell..... i also heard that people who died before Jesus' time went to hell but the good people who were in hell went to a place called 'bosom of abraham' which is a hell that they are being comforted untill Jesus comes and brings them to heaven. that there were two hells before Jesus. was any of this said in scriptures?

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In the OT there is no concept of hell as we know it. The after life is actually largely unknown and called Sheol or the place of the dead. Sheol is a place where all must pass through when you die regardless of how "good" or "bad" you are and no concept of punishment is really elaborated instead the wicked's punishment is their death with inherently sends them to Sheol but it is the death that is the focus of the the punishment not the place they go.

In the NT there is a parallel greek word to Sheol which is Hades. In classical greek like Sheol it is a malevolent place of the dead however in its use in the NT it is an undesired place where one is left and forgotten. It is liken to concepts of evil, judgment, fire and death. Where instead the righteous seem to inherit a better place. "Hell" is not a word found in the bible and there are other concepts in the NT that are translated into this like Gehenna. Although Gehenna is more connected with a place of torment than Hades is each has liken references specifically to fire and punishment and on a level can be interchanged.

Abraham's Bosom is mention in one place in the NT contrasted with Hades and is a good example of Hades liken to a place of torment. Jesus talks about it in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. In the parable the rich man dies and goes to Hades, a place of fire and torment, and Lazarus also dies but goes to Abraham's Bosom. The two are separated by a great chasm but are able to see each other in some way or another. The rich man "lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his bosom" (Luke 16:23) so it identified Hades as below Abraham's Bosom. But this is a parable and we need to be careful how literally we take it as the point of the parable is not to describe locations of the afterlife but instead to show that the wicked are punished and the least of us on earth is shown as the greatest in the afterlife.

There is also a concept of Jesus going to this place of the dead but it is unclear exactly what is meant by this. Matthew 12:40 says "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." This could simply mean in the ground but Sheol as a Hebrew concept is very much thought to be a literal place in the earth that you must go down to enter in OT references it is paralleled with the concept of going down under the earth.

1 Peter expands upon this idea that Jesus went to this place of the dead saying "through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water" (1 Peter 3:19-20) and "For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit." (1 Peter 4:6)

The place of the afterlife presented in the bible is actually very much ambiguous and cryptic. It presents itself as a layered system from places of extreme torment, malevolent, staging areas before the resurrection, to paradise. Whatever the afterlife holds for us or its apparent many layers it is all put to an end which is clear in Revelations and all are taken out and judged paving the way for the incorruptible new heaven and new earth.

Revelation 20:13-21:1
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and each one was judged according to their deeds. And Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea did not exist any longer.

ebia said:

But beware because it's a parable. It's as inappropriate to use it as a lesson in life after death as it is to use the parable of the sower as a lesson in agriculture.

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How do you know that it is a parable?

Hentenza said:

How do you know that it is a parable?

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1. It has almost all the usual characteristics of a parable?
2. It functions as a parable in answering the question at hand at that point in the gospel
3. All the rest of Jesus' answer-stories are parables. This would be a seriously out of character story for Jesus to tell on many levels if it's not parabolic.
4. Scholarship.
5. The picture of paradise and hell it would paint (separated by a chasm that can be talked across and potentially walked across with a bucket of water, for instance) hardly looks literal.

ebia said:

1. It has almost all the usual characteristics of a parable?
2. It functions as a parable in answering the question at hand at that point in the gospel
3. All the rest of Jesus' answer-stories are parables. This would be a seriously out of character story for Jesus to tell on many levels if it's not parabolic.
4. Scholarship.
5. The picture of paradise and hell it would paint (separated by a chasm that can be talked across and potentially walked across with a bucket of water, for instance) hardly looks literal.

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1. All confirmed parables do not use proper names. That is at least one characteristic that it does not have in common with other parables. Secondly, most confirmed parables state that it is a parable, this one does not.

2. How so?

3. Not really. Some were, some were not.

4. Scholarship is divided.

5. "Hardly" is a matter of opinion.

Hentenza said:

1. All confirmed parables do not use proper names. That is at least one characteristic that it does not have in common with other parables.

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That Lazarus has a name is unusual. The "certain rich man", however, is typical of a parable. That Abraham appears is natural for the story as it is structured. So there is one partially unusual characteristic among biblical parables . But that's about it. On the other hand if it's not parabolic it's completely unique among Jesus' teaching stories.

Also:
The name [Eleazar, a very, very common name] means "God helps/has helped," and is likely to be symbolic of the divinely orchestrated ultimate outcome of the man's desperate state. Additional suggestions about the fact of a name include (i) noting that this specification prevents the reversal pattern of the parable from being automatically applicable to every poor person; and (ii) pointing out that the naming of the poor man while the rich man remains anonymous already anticipates the coming reversal by reversing the normal anonymity of poverty and the individuating significance of wealth.. WBC VOL35b

Secondly, most confirmed parables state that it is a parable, this one does not.

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Parables themselves almost never say they are parabolic. Sometimes the text around it says it is parabolic. Sometimes it doesn't. There's nothing unique in not. In almost no cases would the teller of a parable say "this is a parable".

2. How so?

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Are you serious?

3. Not really. Some were, some were not.

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Name one similar non-parabolic story in Jesus teaching?

4. Scholarship is divided.

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From what ive seen the consensus of currebt scholarship is that it's a parable. The main people disagreeing are people determined to keep it non-parabolic as a proof text and non-scholars. But if you've got a meta-study showing a significant difference of opinion let's see it.

5. "Hardly" is a matter of opinion.

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you asked how I know; of course you get my opinion in the answer. Do you really think "heaven" and "hell" are two lands separated by a narrow, crossable, canyon?

Frankarmendariz said:

i read that people who die and go to hell aren't in hell at this moment, that they are in a waiting room waiting to be judged, and when it is the end of times, is when they will go to hell..... i also heard that people who died before Jesus' time went to hell but the good people who were in hell went to a place called 'bosom of abraham' which is a hell that they are being comforted untill Jesus comes and brings them to heaven. that there were two hells before Jesus. was any of this said in scriptures?

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Lets let the bible speak on this subject. Lets see what happens to people who die.


Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

These are just a few scriptures to show that when you die, you actually die, and are in the grave, earth, dust, which can also be described as hades or sheol, until the resurrection of the dead. What happens when you die is the same from the Old Testament to the New Testament. The whole idea of Abraham's bosom comes from the parable that is wrongly taken as literal. A parable is never really a true story but a made up story to demonstrate a point. Many people totally miss the point that Jesus was making with the parable but instead take it literally and apply it wrongly.

Look at the scripture well and you would see that most of the scriptures dealing with the state of the dead agree that at death you go to the grave until the resurrection.