'Hell'

[1j9r8w9]

To be frank, I don't believe in God. I can't say he doesn't exist (and neither can any other Atheist) but I can say, with some conviction, that based on what we know about us and our surroundings the idea of a God is highly improbable. From what i've seen at my old Church (people falling over, people speaking in 'tounges') I have come to view Christianity as a mental defect. I know that's offensive but I have the same thrown back at me by Christians. (Apparently, the 'Devil' has a hold of me).

My point is, as I blatantly reject Christianity and think God is a false idea created by man to justify atrocious acts (OT) and to try and provide (false) hope (NT), is this an automatic bar for life on getting into Heaven (if it exists)? I'm not interested personally, just from a technicallity point of view

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

To be frank, I don't believe in God. I can't say he doesn't exist (and neither can any other Atheist) but I can say, with some conviction, that based on what we know about us and our surroundings the idea of a God is highly improbable. From what i've seen at my old Church (people falling over, people speaking in 'tounges') I have come to view Christianity as a mental defect. I know that's offensive but I have the same thrown back at me by Christians. (Apparently, the 'Devil' has a hold of me).

My point is, as I blatantly reject Christianity and think God is a false idea created by man to justify atrocious acts (OT) and to try and provide (false) hope (NT), is this an automatic bar for life on getting into Heaven (if it exists)? I'm not interested personally, just from a technicallity point of view

Not quite sure I understand the point of your question.

You say you're not interested in any answers offered

You say Christianity is a mental defect

What are you trying to ascertain? That by accepting the Bible you'll get into heaven?

Also I'm inclined to ask, why ask?

When I was an atheist I had no interest Christianity at all - it held no interest to me.

I'm not saying you shouldn't ask but I'm just puzzled as to why you would ask when you kept asserting that you'll reject any answer offered.

 

[1j9r8w9]

Not quite sure I understand the point of your question.

You say you're not interested in any answers offered

You say Christianity is a mental defect

What are you trying to ascertain? That by accepting the Bible you'll get into heaven?

Also I'm inclined to ask, why ask?

When I was an atheist I had no interest Christianity at all - it held no interest to me.

I'm not saying you shouldn't ask but I'm just puzzled as to why you would ask when you kept asserting that you'll reject any answer offered.

I'm asking on a technicallity. With God being a God of love and all, would he (were he to exist) accept those who reject him? Or does his love not cover that?

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I'm asking on a technicallity.

Apologies for my persistence.....but why? Why ask? Why ask on a technicality?

I don't believe in aliens. I have no inclination to ask a scenerio about a concept I reject. Technicality or not.

With God being a God of love and all, would he (were he to exist) accept those who reject him? Or does his love not cover that?

But .......if one does not believe He exists, why would such a question be entertained? Are you searching for God? Are you making sure that He (according to you) definately does/does not exist?

My point is since you state you are so certain to His non-existence, why ask?

 

[salida]

Well, ha christianity isn't at all a mental anything. Its a true spiritual experience. After the human spirit is renewed with Gods Spirit (Holy Spirit) - then the mental part is renewed. Not because I said so - but because of the overwhelming evidence that supports the Bible. I'm a christian spiritually first and intellectually second. If you are serious about this and want to do your research and homework - I strongly recommend you start reading the book,The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (this evidence would stand up in a court of law). And Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former athiest). The Bible is the most true book in the world because its the most historically accurate, it has hundreds of detailed prophesies in it that has come true and more to be fulfilled - just among many out of two characteristics that conclude God could only have written it using imperfect men. Also, I'm a scientist - there is good science and bad science - www.reasons.org - about science and belief. God created science and He made the laws for it. Yes, I have spoken in tongues as not everyone does. No, I don't believe its the initial evidence of the Holy Spirit because the Bible doesn't claim this. Jesus did say to be a fruit inspector.

Biblical Evidence – This is a very small amount of information
out of large amounts of information out there.

Internal Evidences-Prophesies that are confirmed with Bible;

mentioning only a few – but there are hundreds.

Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen. 49:10, Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke’s time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5, Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 – four kingdoms are described in the interpretation
of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek – Daniel 8:21, 10:20/ and a fourth great kingdom to follow which was part iron and clay – which is the
Roman Empire – during this empire, Christ came and the church was established – Daniel 2:44.

Historical Accuracy

The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events of hundreds of years ago, yet
none of them has been proven to be incorrect.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents)
New Testament – starts at 25 years – between the original and surviving copies
Homer- starts at 500 years/Demosthenes – at 1400 years/Plato – at 1200 years/
Caesar – at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies

New Testament – 5,686/Homer – 643/Demosthenes – 200/Plato – 7/Caesar – 10

Consistency – Written by 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no
Internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration- It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.


External Evidences

(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never to be built again- and they haven’t.
Niveveh – Nahum 1:10, 3:7, 15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon – Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre -Ezekiel 26:1-28

Bible before Science

He hangs the earth on nothing – Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago – some scholars think it could have been even 3000
years ago)
Note: Man only knew the above for 350 years.
Earth is a sphere – Isaiah 40:22/Air has weight – Job 28:25/
Gravity – Job 26:7, Job 38: 31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True

Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogical Evidence (Still adding to this list today- it hasn’t stopped)
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

**Again, if you do your own research and homework and don't take my word for it you will find this to be true. I have studied other religions also.

 

[salida]

Well, ha christianity isn't at all a mental anything. Its a true spiritual experience. After the human spirit is renewed with Gods Spirit (Holy Spirit) - then the mental part is renewed. Not because I said so - but because of the overwhelming evidence that supports the Bible. I'm a christian spiritually first and intellectually second. If you are serious about this and want to do your research and homework - I strongly recommend you start reading the book,The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (this evidence would stand up in a court of law). And Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former athiest). The Bible is the most true book in the world because its the most historically accurate, it has hundreds of detailed prophesies in it that has come true and more to be fulfilled - just among many out of two characteristics that conclude God could only have written it using imperfect men. Also, I'm a scientist - there is good science and bad science - www.reasons.org - about science and belief. God created science and He made the laws for it. Yes, I have spoken in tongues as not everyone does. No, I don't believe its the initial evidence of the Holy Spirit because the Bible doesn't claim this. Jesus did say to be a fruit inspector.

Biblical Evidence – This is a very small amount of information
out of large amounts of information out there.

Internal Evidences-Prophesies that are confirmed with Bible;

mentioning only a few – but there are hundreds.

Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen. 49:10, Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke’s time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5, Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 – four kingdoms are described in the interpretation
of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek – Daniel 8:21, 10:20/ and a fourth great kingdom to follow which was part iron and clay – which is the
Roman Empire – during this empire, Christ came and the church was established – Daniel 2:44.

Historical Accuracy

The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events of hundreds of years ago, yet
none of them has been proven to be incorrect.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents)
New Testament – starts at 25 years – between the original and surviving copies
Homer- starts at 500 years/Demosthenes – at 1400 years/Plato – at 1200 years/
Caesar – at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies

New Testament – 5,686/Homer – 643/Demosthenes – 200/Plato – 7/Caesar – 10

Consistency – Written by 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no
Internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration- It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.


External Evidences

(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never to be built again- and they haven’t.
Niveveh – Nahum 1:10, 3:7, 15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon – Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre -Ezekiel 26:1-28

Bible before Science

He hangs the earth on nothing – Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago – some scholars think it could have been even 3000
years ago)
Note: Man only knew the above for 350 years.
Earth is a sphere – Isaiah 40:22/Air has weight – Job 28:25/
Gravity – Job 26:7, Job 38: 31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True

Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogical Evidence (Still adding to this list today- it hasn’t stopped)
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

**Again, if you do your own research and homework and don't take my word for it you will find this to be true. I have studied other religions also.

 

[awitch]

Well, ha christianity isn't at all a mental anything. Its a true spiritual experience.

I agree with Salida that Christianity is not a mental illness. Sure, there are some wacky people from all faiths that may express mental illness through religion, but regardless of the reality of these faiths, there are a lot of positives contributions to society - charity, community building, social action, human rights, social guidelines etc.

I admit that faith is usually not logical, but that doesn't mean those who follow one are mentally ill.

This is not the appropriate time nor place to debate with Salida on the accuracy in the Bible so I will bite my tongue...er...fingers.

 

[brinny]

Why are you asking, or what are you asking? And how does it tie into your thread title Hell?

 

[unkern]

It doesnt sound like you truly understand christianity. I would suggest reading "A case for faith" with some of your questions. In both the new and old testament the same amount of love is show, the same amount of everything is show. These atrocities by God you speak of in the old testament, I see none. Your misunderstanding what was going on during that time. Most of those tribes destroyed by the army of Isreal had to be destroyed, God gave them a very long time to change some around 400 years and even then it was custom for the Isrealites to ask them for a peaceful situation, And were talking about tribes that are sacrificing their sons and daughters to fire, molesting, perverts. I would like to go more indepth, but ill save that for later.

Now as for Hell, God doesnt choose for us whether or not we go to hell. We make that choice, with everything we do we either drive ourselves closer or farther away from God. Hell is simply the absence of God, a person chose it their entire life why would they get an eternity of what they asked for.

 

[seashale76]

My point is, as I blatantly reject Christianity and think God is a false idea created by man to justify atrocious acts (OT) and to try and provide (false) hope (NT), is this an automatic bar for life on getting into Heaven (if it exists)? I'm not interested personally, just from a technicallity point of view

I'm agnostic on that. I'm agnostic as to my own salvation as well.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in...tern_Orthodoxy

"For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

 

[1j9r8w9]

Well, ha christianity isn't at all a mental anything. Its a true spiritual experience. After the human spirit is renewed with Gods Spirit (Holy Spirit) - then the mental part is renewed. Not because I said so - but because of the overwhelming evidence that supports the Bible. I'm a christian spiritually first and intellectually second. If you are serious about this and want to do your research and homework - I strongly recommend you start reading the book,The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (this evidence would stand up in a court of law). And Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former athiest). The Bible is the most true book in the world because its the most historically accurate, it has hundreds of detailed prophesies in it that has come true and more to be fulfilled - just among many out of two characteristics that conclude God could only have written it using imperfect men. Also, I'm a scientist - there is good science and bad science - www.reasons.org - about science and belief. God created science and He made the laws for it. Yes, I have spoken in tongues as not everyone does. No, I don't believe its the initial evidence of the Holy Spirit because the Bible doesn't claim this. Jesus did say to be a fruit inspector.

Biblical Evidence – This is a very small amount of information
out of large amounts of information out there.

Internal Evidences-Prophesies that are confirmed with Bible;

mentioning only a few – but there are hundreds.

Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen. 49:10, Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke’s time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5, Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 – four kingdoms are described in the interpretation
of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek – Daniel 8:21, 10:20/ and a fourth great kingdom to follow which was part iron and clay – which is the
Roman Empire – during this empire, Christ came and the church was established – Daniel 2:44.

Historical Accuracy

The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events of hundreds of years ago, yet
none of them has been proven to be incorrect.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents)
New Testament – starts at 25 years – between the original and surviving copies
Homer- starts at 500 years/Demosthenes – at 1400 years/Plato – at 1200 years/
Caesar – at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies

New Testament – 5,686/Homer – 643/Demosthenes – 200/Plato – 7/Caesar – 10

Consistency – Written by 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no
Internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration- It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.


External Evidences

(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never to be built again- and they haven’t.
Niveveh – Nahum 1:10, 3:7, 15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon – Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre -Ezekiel 26:1-28

Bible before Science

He hangs the earth on nothing – Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago – some scholars think it could have been even 3000
years ago)
Note: Man only knew the above for 350 years.
Earth is a sphere – Isaiah 40:22/Air has weight – Job 28:25/
Gravity – Job 26:7, Job 38: 31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True

Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogical Evidence (Still adding to this list today- it hasn’t stopped)
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

**Again, if you do your own research and homework and don't take my word for it you will find this to be true. I have studied other religions also.

I'm not going to argue with that because a) there are too many contentious points and b) it'd probs result in me getting kicked off this site.

I've come to realise being on here is pointless. Christians think Atheists are deluded and Atheists think Christians need to see sense so it really is a swings and roundabouts situation.

This is my last post (but it's not the last you will hear of me). Best of luck to whatever ya'll do outside this forum

 

[ebia]

To be frank, I don't believe in God. I can't say he doesn't exist (and neither can any other Atheist) but I can say, with some conviction, that based on what we know about us and our surroundings the idea of a God is highly improbable. From what i've seen at my old Church (people falling over, people speaking in 'tounges') I have come to view Christianity as a mental defect. I know that's offensive but I have the same thrown back at me by Christians. (Apparently, the 'Devil' has a hold of me).

My point is, as I blatantly reject Christianity and think God is a false idea created by man to justify atrocious acts (OT) and to try and provide (false) hope (NT), is this an automatic bar for life on getting into Heaven (if it exists)? I'm not interested personally, just from a technicallity point of view

No-one can be fully human, nor play their necessary part in God's current creation nor his "New Heavens and New Earth" without acknowledging him. We are made to be his image in and for the world. So if you continue to refuse to respond to God you necessarly exclude yourself from his restored, renewed, "New Creation".

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I'm not going to argue with that because a) there are too many contentious points and b) it'd probs result in me getting kicked off this site.

I've come to realise being on here is pointless. Christians think Atheists are deluded and Atheists think Christians need to see sense so it really is a swings and roundabouts situation.

This is my last post (but it's not the last you will hear of me). Best of luck to whatever ya'll do outside this forum

*Embolden mine*

Ahhhh, so the purpose for your first post was to argue. Well okay, that's all I wanted to know.

BTW

Not all Christian believe Atheists are deluded (they didn't think that when they prayed for me - an atheist). If they hold true to scripture then a deep founded love grows for their fellow man.

And not all Atheists think that Christians need to see sense - a percentage actually don't give a monkey's about such a foreign concept like Christianity because it doesn't pay their bills, get their groceries, affect their day-to-day life etc etc... Not being aware of God is not a badge to be worn just like being a Christian is not an exclusive club.

The fact that you use to be in a church comes across as though you've become disillusioned with what you'd witnessed. Now if ever you wish to talk about that, then let us know