Hell fire!

ashout · Nov 3, 2011

is it wrong to come up with guesses as to what heaven or hell will be like?

tackattack · Nov 3, 2011

wrong? I wouldn't say wrong. My opinion on the matter is pretty simple. All the polemics and apologetics, biblical hermeneutics, living victoriously, wealth and prosperity doctrines and hell fire and brimstone and humility really means nothing without the Holy Spirit in it. I've been talking to atheists and christians a lot lately, and the only times anythign has ever changed in them is when my voice was quiet and my heart open and willing to speak the whispers the Spirit had given me for them.

I personally have never been much for desiring rewards in heaven or fear of hell doctrines. I think they detract from God's purpose for us here in this short time. Do you think the flower pines for heaven or fears anything? No, it simply reflects how God created it as best it can, which is all I will ever try and do anymore. Doesn't mean I won't discuss and learn as much as possible, and try and save the lost but much more than that seems like wasted energy.

CMDRExorcist · Nov 4, 2011

It's not wrong, but on a personal level, I don't think it matters. Heaven and Hell ARE, and it's doesn't matter what we think about them.

God Bless
Wesley

Timothew · Nov 4, 2011

ashout said:
is it wrong to come up with guesses as to what heaven or hell will be like?

Yes, because people usually get it wrong. Dante, for example caused a lot of confusion about "hell".

People start to think that the hell of eternal torment that they imagine, is a real place. The bible says that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) not eternal torment in a mythological hell.

Biker Angel · Nov 4, 2011

ashout said:
is it wrong to come up with guesses as to what heaven or hell will be like?

Guessing is not being sure. I am sure not going to guess about something that I am sure about. To thine own self be true and let heaven and hell to their own selves be true as well. Even faith plays no guessing games but is sure where it stands.

lucypevensie · Nov 4, 2011

Everyone makes guesses about things in the Bible that are not real clear. But when it's peoples' souls we are talking about, it's best to leave our guesses as just that - guesses. We should not base theological issues on guessing and personal opinions and what we want the Bible to say. The Bible says what it says about both of these places and we'd be wise to not make any more assumptions beyond what it says.

Biker Angel · Nov 4, 2011

lucypevensie said:
Everyone makes guesses about things in the Bible that are not real clear. But when it's peoples' souls we are talking about, it's best to leave our guesses as just that - guesses. We should not base theological issues on guessing and personal opinions and what we want the Bible to say. The Bible says what it says about both of these places and we'd be wise to not make any more assumptions beyond what it says.

I drank a gallon of LSD laced Kool-aid, referring to your title, and in fact I have taken thousands of hits of LSD, tho not in the past 10 years. It helped me walk with a 3rd eye opened to all the BS and crap that swims around us like so many sharks swimming among the foolish and the ignorant, who only end up as meat to such sharks who also can not catch and eat the wise and prepared ones.

revrobor · Nov 4, 2011

It's not wrong, just human curiosity. What is wrong is assuming Believers are going to spend Eternity in Heaven. Read Rev.21.

revrobor · Nov 4, 2011

Timothew said:
Yes, because people usually get it wrong. Dante, for example caused a lot of confusion about "hell".

People start to think that the hell of eternal torment that they imagine, is a real place. The bible says that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) not eternal torment in a mythological hell.

Apparently there are parts of you Bible you have not read. Try Rev. 21.

Kutte · Nov 4, 2011

ashout said:
is it wrong to come up with guesses as to what heaven or hell will be like?

Well, there is the Episcopalian bishop John Shelby Spong who says that things such as heaven and hell are merely prefered tools for certain people to control the masses.
I tend to agree with that.

Kutte

________________________________________________________________

Why AM I when there could have been no I AM?

Timothew · Nov 4, 2011

revrobor said:
Apparently there are parts of you Bible you have not read. Try Rev. 21.

Are you sure that is how you want to say that, as a christian?

But my answer to you is yes, I have read Rev 21. I've also read the part of Rev 21 where John tells us what he means by the lake of fire, "This is the second death". Note that John says the lake of fire is the second death, not eternal torment in fire. Now, have you read Paul's Letters? In Romans 6:23, Paul says the same thing. "The wages of sin is death". Death is not eternal torment. Paul doesn't say that the wages of sin is eternal torment in hell.

Have you read the gospels? I recommend that you read the Gospel of John first. In John 3:16, it says that whoever believes in him (Jesus) will not perish, but will have eternal life. Perish means die. Notice that John did not write that whoever believes in Jesus will not be tortured in fiery hell, but will go to heaven. The choices Jesus sets forth and John records are eternal life or perishing.

Have you read the old testament? Ezekiel 18:20 says that the soul that sins will die. Ezekiel doesn't say that the soul that sins will be tortured in fiery hell.

You say that it is apparent that I haven't read my bible. If you have read your bible, how could you have missed these passages?

revrobor · Nov 4, 2011

How could you have missed all the passages that describe Hell? If you choose to ignore them that is your problem. But you do a disservice to God if you tell anyone you witness to that those who who reject Jesus just cease to exist. If that were the case there would be many who would not accept God's plan of salvation. Ceasing to exist is not a punishment or fearful. If we are "saved" what is it we are save from?

ashout · Nov 4, 2011

if hell is torture, i don't want to go there, if hell is to stop existing, i don't want to do that.

lets just agree on this: Hell bad, heaven good.

Timothew · Nov 4, 2011

revrobor said:
How could you have missed all the passages that describe Hell? If you choose to ignore them that is your problem. But you do a disservice to God if you tell anyone you witness to that those who who reject Jesus just cease to exist. If that were the case there would be many who would not accept God's plan of salvation. Ceasing to exist is not a punishment or fearful. If we are "saved" what is it we are save from?

You seriously need to check your attitude. We are disagreeing about what the bible says. There is no reason for saying the things that you are saying.

If we are "saved" what is it we are save from?

If God gives us eternal life, we are saved from death.

revrobor · Nov 4, 2011

Timothew said:
You seriously need to check your attitude. We are disagreeing about what the bible says. There is no reason for saying the things that you are saying.

If God gives us eternal life, we are saved from death.

No, I know what the Bible says. We are disagreeing about your interpretation of what the Bible says.

Timothew · Nov 4, 2011

revrobor said:
We are disagreeing about you interpretation of what the Bible says.

That's correct, and we are disagreeing about your interpretation of what the bible says.

And you are being disagreeable.

revrobor · Nov 4, 2011

Timothew said:
That's correct, and we are disagreeing about your interpretation of what the bible says.

And you are being disagreeable.

Apparently you have never had anyone disagree with you before. I am disagreeing with your interpretation and not attacking you personally. I'm sorry I can't say the same about you.

Timothew · Nov 4, 2011

revrobor said:
Apparently you have never had anyone disagree with you before. I am disagreeing with your interpretation and not attacking you personally. I'm sorry I can't say the same about you.

OK, according to the bible, the wages of sin is death.

Is this true or just my interpretation?

revrobor · Nov 4, 2011

Timothew said:
OK, according to the bible, the wages of sin is death.

Is this true or just my interpretation?

According to Jesus Matt. 5:22 "...whoever says 'you fool' is in danger of hell fire." Is that true?

According to Jesus Matt 5:29,30 "...than for your whole body to be cast into hell". Is that true?

According to Jesus Matt 10:28 "...who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell". Is that true?

According to Jesus Matt. 18:9 "...rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire". Is that true?

Also Matt 22:33, Luke 12:5, 16:23, 24, James 3:6, Mark 9:43, 45, 47, Matt. 25:41. Are these true?

Timothew · Nov 4, 2011

revrobor said:
According to Jesus Matt. 5:22 "...whoever says 'you fool' is in danger of hell fire." Is that true?

According to Jesus Matt 5:29,30 "...than for your whole body to be cast into hell". Is that true?

According to Jesus Matt 10:28 "...who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell". Is that true?

According to Jesus Matt. 18:9 "...rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire". Is that true?

Also Matt 22:33, Luke 12:5, 16:23, 24, James 3:6, Mark 9:43, 45, 47, Matt. 25:41. Are these true?

All true. Gehenna is the place where human sacrifices were made to Moloch by the pagans. Being cast into Gehenna is to be killed in gehenna. Not tortured alive. The sacrifices in Gehenna were not kept alive.
What does fire do to things? Torture them or burn them up?

Now back to Romans 6:23

True or false?

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