Hell-Fire

AzA said:

So the ultimate expression of love is warning people about hell?
That takes so much for granted.

So, so much.

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who talked about ultimate expression?

I just read the book of Daniel, and it (he) stated that in "many" would be resurrected after death, some to everlasting life and some to punishment. This old testament chapter is in line with what Jesus taught in the Gospels.

I doubt that all condemned will burn eternally (the translated word "eternal" can have several meanings). Daniel's quote seems to imply that some will just "sleep". I'm under the impression that God will be just, but lenient (because of Grace), especially to those who behaved mercifully to others in life.

There should be no reason for nightmares.

lismore said:

Anyone have problems with the traditional Christian view of hell-fire?

I remember as a child in the Catholic church, the thought of people burning in hell forever gave me nightmares. People burned eternally for the mistakes and choices of a few years.

Later on as a Pentecostal I was surprised at though they all believed the majority of their neighbours were going to burn, few people were actually giving a message of warning. I would have thought they would be out on the streets 24/7 to warn people of this hell-fire. SOme actually looked forward to seeing people they didnt like burning in hell.

Any alternatives?

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DM, the argument so far seems to be "If those who believe in hell really loved people they'd be out there day and night warning them."
The implication is that they must not really love people if they're not constantly warning. "How can they sleep at night?"

lismore said:

If a person believed that it exsited and that their neighbour was going then a warning would indeed seem loving. I dont think it would be the most loving thing though.

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What would be the most loving thing for them to do, then? It's not clear to me what alternate behavior you're recommending.

lismore said:

My question is, why do those who believe in an eternal hell not seem to warn people?

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Perhaps because it would be counterproductive?

Many people who get told "Repent or burn in hell forever", turn their backs on Christianity with a #$$%%^ attitude. The old adage "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" works, too.

I have one friend who wants to convince me of the truth of Christianity (the literal, conservative type) by being a good friend and loving me. Well, it might work if I didn't have any other friends. Of course, at one time she did suggest I might go to hell, but I kind of laughed at that, and I happen to have lots of good reasons why hell doesn't exist, and even if it did, I wouldn't go there... I am a confusing case, I love God and Jesus, yet am not considered a Christian.
Another friend told me that Jesus would tell me he never knew me. Now, that one bothered me, and created a deep well of pain, but still, I wouldn't believe in hell. But, I told her I had an open mind.
So, if Hell-believers were out there warning people 24/7, they would be ruining many of their relationships, running into skeptics and far too many people who could weaken their faith, and practically ensuring that less people would find God and be saved.

lismore said:

Anyone have problems with the traditional Christian view of hell-fire?

I remember as a child in the Catholic church, the thought of people burning in hell forever gave me nightmares. People burned eternally for the mistakes and choices of a few years.

Later on as a Pentecostal I was surprised at though they all believed the majority of their neighbours were going to burn, few people were actually giving a message of warning. I would have thought they would be out on the streets 24/7 to warn people of this hell-fire. SOme actually looked forward to seeing people they didnt like burning in hell.

Any alternatives?

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To answer the original post....

Nobody will be lost to God in the end....not one, to suggest otherwise is too deny the death of Christ for sins.

I know there is a teaching around Christendom about hell fire and eternal torment....but it is a Demonic teaching, that denies the death of Christ for Sins.

That is how easy it is, to expose this false teaching for what it is....false.

The real truth of the matter, is that Salvation for all was achieved by Jesus Christ alone....at the Cross, nobody else was allowed by God to partake in their own Salvation or anybody elses.

Nobody is capable of saving themselves....it was Gods desire that all be saved for Eternity with him, so he had Jesus accomplish the work non of us would be allowed too do....saving us.

Nobody can now boast before God!

and there is nothing you or anybody else can do about it.... That is the Good News of the Gospel !

There are those who will argue until they are blue in the face to support demonic doctrine like eternal torment.

It is God who is hardening them for destruction....they where never meant for the first ressurection...they are out spoken enemies of the Cross of Christ.

They where pre destined for this by God.....it in no way means they are lost to God....in the end.

In the end...is what it is all about...nobody....not one will be lost to God!

Glory be to God!

Lo! New am I making all

Isn't it interesting that "Gehenna", the city dump outside the southern wall of Jerusalem in our Lord's day on earth, was where the trash, offal and bodies of dead animals and criminals were being burned. As long as there was something to burn, the fires were unending. And what wasn't burned was eaten by maggots (worms).

You can read of this in Bible dictionaries, or commentaries.

Eleven times Jesus warned his disciples and the multitudes about being sentenced to the fires of Gehenna (Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5).

Unfortunately, the early church fathers believed man possessed an "immortal soul" which, for the unbelievers, would be tormented in the everlasting fires of "hell". And so, in the above passages "Gehenna" was interpreted as "hell" giving a false doctrine.

MY FRIENDS----THIS IS NOT FROM THE LITERAL SCRIPTURES.

Using a concordance, one will find that all the places interpreted as "hell" in the OT cannot possibly be a "place burning with fire and sulfur somewhere in the interior of the earth", as is the popular doctrine.

The Hebrew word is "Sheol", meaning literally "unseen." In the AV, practically all the occurrences of "sheol" should be rendered as "the unseen" , "the grave" or "the pit", depending on context.

Paul by inspiration writes in Romans 6:23, "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is aionion (Greek) life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

"Aionios" is the adjective form of the noun "aion" which means an unknown time period, or "age." It could be likened to an "epic"; It is not unending.

"Aionios" is generally rendered "age-lasting" in Young's Literal Version, and "age-abiding" in Rotherham's Emphasized Bible. Very few other versions have rendered "aion" and "aionios" correctly.'
However, the Concordant Literal N.T. consistently transliterates the words thus: "eon" and "eonian".

In the OT, the Hebrew word for "age" is "olam."

It can be shown that God from creation is working our a plan and purpose for the eons.
Certain mysteries, especially concerning the church/body of Christ, are set forth in the last of Paul's prison epistles: Ephesians and Colossians.

It is God's plan to head up [the] all things in Christ---both that in the heavens and that on earth...according to the purpose of God who is operating [the] all in accord with the counsel of His will..
See Eph. 1:7-12 and 1:15-23.

Thus, someday at the conclusion of the eons, all enemies will be willing subjects to Christ who will head up all, whether spirit beings in the celestials, or all humans on earth.

And with all enemies having become subject to Christ, and thus being reconciled to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross). Read Col. 1:15-20.

You may ask at this point, what about those who have died?

Well, the church/body will have been caught up to the celestials at the 'rapture.'
All the righteous Israelites and proselytes to Judaism, from Abraham on, will be raised 75 days after Christ returns to the earth at the end of this age (eon).

All others who have died will be raised to be judged at the great white thrown after the millennium is over. These will be judged according with their deeds. There will be some who will be judged worthy of life, whose names are in the book of life, and will live on the New Earth.

It is good to remember that God through Christ, is a righteous judge. Every decree, whether positive or negative, will be just and right. Of course it is said, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord", and certainly He will be requited. In my mind, all being judged before Christ Jesus on His glorious throne, with, no doubt, myriads of angels there, will all believe and beg for mercy; which God will grant in its place and time.

All whose names are not written in the book of life, will die the second death in the lake of fire.
See Rev. 20:11-15.

This is a corrective chastisment and they will be there for two eons: the Millenium, and the New Heavens and Earth.

In 1 Cor. 15:22-25 is a special revelation given only to Paul. God will be involved in all enemies being made subject to Christ. And, this will occur at the consummation of the ages (eons) when sin will be reputiated and Death, the last enemy will be abolished. Then, all who have died the second death will be made alive.

And with Death abolished, Christ, the Son, will also be subjected to Him who subjects [the] all to Christ, that God may be All in all.

Bick

lismore said:

Hi Bick and spiritdriven

Yes, its because I had trouble with the eternal hell doctrine that I started this thread..........please keep posting away. good stuff

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Read I Timothy 4....all of it...

Peace