Hebrews 6.4-6

[theseed]

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Possible interpations:
1) Arminians believe that this is talking about loseing one's salvation, but notice it is not possible to be saved a 2nd time

2)Some think this is not referring to genuine believers, the falling away is knowledge of truth, but not actually acting on it, therefore, no faith. They know Jesus saves, but come short of placing thier faith. I may know that a chair can hold me up, but if I don't sit in it, then I'm not placing my faith in it.

3)Some think that it is talking about true believers, but the "falling away" is only there to stregthen the warning. Hence, "It is impossible for a student to turn back the clock, once enrolled in the class, to start over again. Therefore, let all students go deeper into knowldege"

I find it hard to accept #1 becasue it does not allow for one to be saved more than once.

 

[thekingster]

I believe the author of Hebrews was sending this message to Hebrew-Christians...those who had a hard time accepting Jesus through a "grace perspective". To add to grace = loving the law...

Steven King

 

[d0c markus]

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,

some will say that if you taste something you truly dont have it. I would disagree.

5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,

6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

To fall away from something means you have to be apart of it. You left out the words 'it is impossible [to be brought...]"

I'd like to see the greek word for impossible.

 

[meezs]

Impossible



102 adunatos { ad-oo’-nat-os}

from 1 (as a negative particle) and 1415; TDNT - 2:284, 186; adj

AV - impossible 6, impotent 1, could not do 1, weak 1, not possible 1; 10

GK - 105 { ajduvnato" }

1) without strength, impotent, powerless, weakly, disabled
2) unable to be done, impossible
Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995.

 

[d0c markus]

very interesting.

 

[Yitzchak]

This is a troubling passage. I have observed some in churches who get "saved" numerous times meaning that they backslide and return many times and treat it as if they are being saved all over again. Some even get baptized several times. My feeling is that this is refering to this practice being wrong.
As we grow in Christ we are constantly convicted anew of the need for a deeper work of grace and sanctification in our lives, but to continue to dwell on getting salvation over and over is a bad witness and prevents maturity in the life of a believer.
In verse 4 the word "for" seems to indicate that it refers back to what was being discussed in the preceding verses. Also, in the orginal language the chapter breaks were not there so it may even refer back in context to chapter five which is a rebuke for being stuck in infantile faith.

 

[meezs]

Hewbrews 6:4-6
4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Key Words

Verse 4
Impossible:102 adunatos { ad-oo’-nat-os}
1)without strength, impotent, powerless, weakly, disabled
2)unable to be done, impossible


Enlightened:5461 photizo { fo-tid’-zo}
1) to give light, to shine
2) to enlighten, light up, illumine
3) to bring to light, render evident
3a) to cause something to exist and thus come to light and become clear to all
4) to enlighten, spiritually, imbue with saving knowledge
4a) to instruct, to inform, teach
4b) to give understanding to

Taste:1089 geuomai { ghyoo’-om-ahee}
1) to taste, to try the flavour of
2) to taste
2a) i.e. perceive the flavour of, partake of, enjoy
2b) to feel, make trial of, experience
3) to take food, eat, to take nourishment, eat

Partakers:3353 metochos { met’-okh-os}
1) sharing in, partaking
2) a partner (in a work, office, dignity)

Verse 5
Tasted:Same as verse 4

Word:4487 rhema { hray’-mah}
1) that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word
1a) any sound produced by the voice and having definite meaning
1b) speech, discourse
1b1) what one has said
1c) a series of words joined together into a sentence (a declaration of one’s mind made in words)
1c1) an utterance
1c2) a saying of any sort as a message, a narrative
1c2a) concerning some occurrence
2) subject matter of speech, thing spoken of
2a) so far forth as it is a matter of narration
2b) so far as it is a matter of command
2c) a matter of dispute, case at law

Power:1411 dunamis { doo’-nam-is}
1) strength power, ability
1a) inherent power, power residing in a thing by virtue of its nature, or which a person or thing exerts and puts forth
1b) power for performing miracles
1c) moral power and excellence of soul
1d) the power and influence which belong to riches and wealth
1e) power and resources arising from numbers
1f) power consisting in or resting upon armies, forces, hosts

Age:165 aion { ahee-ohn’}
1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age

Coming:3195 mello { mel’-lo}
1) to be about
1a) to be on the point of doing or suffering something
1b) to intend, have in mind, think to

Verse 6
Fall Away:3895 parapipto { par-ap-ip’-to}
1) to fall beside a person or thing
2) to slip aside
2a) to deviate from the right path, turn aside, wander
2b) to error
2c) to fall away (from the true faith): from worship of Jehovah

To Renew:340 anakainizo { an-ak-ahee-nid’-zo}
1) to renew, renovate

Repentance:3341 metanoia { met-an’-oy-ah}
1) a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

All the Greek translation was taken from:
Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995.

I tried to get the original greek and defined meaning to help understand the verses alittle more.

One thought I got after looking all this up was a thought that if we are born once physically and we come to ask Christ into our lives which is the second birth into the Spirit (bornagain) then "fall away" from our second birth to me there is no other birth we then have died.
For me the way I came to Christ was Him drawing me (John 6:44) and if I reject that I die there is not other way but Christ. To me it is like the unpardonable sin I have rejected the only One that could save me.

Thats some of the thoughts I had in looking up and reading on this.


Looking foreward to reading everyone elses thoughts!
God Bless

 

[d0c markus]

But, as our original question suggested, the passage does seem to conflict with so many other biblical texts that lavishly describe the unfathomable love and mercy of our wonderful and benevolent Maker. How is one to reconcile this seeming difficulty?

The key to the solution is to be found in the following phrase. The American Standard Version renders it as follows: “seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” The ASV footnote has it: “the while they crucify....” The English Standard Version reads like this: “since they are crucifying once again....” The translators are attempting to give the English reader a hint as to the force of the original text. Here are some important grammatical facts.

1. Both of the expressions “crucify” and “put him to open shame” are present tense participles. In Greek, the present tense has more to do with the type of action, rather than time (the latter being secondary). It is an action that is in progress, and generally, one that is sustained (see Wallace, 518). The “crucifying” and “putting to open shame,” therefore, represent on-going actions on the part of apostates.
   
2. It is also important to note that present participles normally express action that is contemporary with that of the main verb of the sentence (Wallace, 625), which, in this case is “renew.” In other words, “while they continue to crucify,” “as long as they are crucifying,” etc., the Son of God, they cannot be brought to repentance. Why is this the case? Because Christ is the motive for repentance! How could one possibly repent of falling away from the Christian faith, if he believes that the crucifixion of Jesus was a just sentence upon a false Messiah? As F.F. Bruce expressed it: “Those who repudiate the salvation procured by Christ will find none anywhere else” (149).
   

Conclusion



And so, it is not the case that Jewish Christians who abandon the faith cannot ever be saved; the tragic reality is this: they cannot be saved if they drift into a state of unbelief and remain that way! But, as Blackwelder observes, the temporal participles imply that “if persons guilty of such sin will cease it, and repent, they can be reclaimed” (104). While the passage contains a fearful warning for apostates, it does not suggest a state of utter despair.

This basically is the theology of the 'omnious impossible' as the writer says in other parts of his essay talking about hebrews 6:4ff. Would you agree with what he says?


http://www.christiancourier.com/questions/renewingApostatesQuestion.htm

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

To understand these verses, you will have do the following:
1. Realize that the Jewish believers were wanting to reinstate certain Jewish rituals and concepts into the Christian faith. In the context this passage, the specific ritual/concept was the daily sacrifice for sins. We see this finally addressed in Chapter 7:21-28, the key verse being 27.

Hebrews 7:27 KJV
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

For the purpose of this discussion: keep in mind this verse. Especially the idea of the "daily sacrifice" in the Jewish religion being replaced by the "he did once" in Christianity. This is key in coming to understand the real meaning of Heb 6:4-6.

2. The other thing your must do to understand Heb 6:4-6 is to read the entire passage in the context that it was written. To do this return to chapter 5, and begin reading at verse 10. We will do this in this post.


Exposition of Heb 5:12

The passage in question should rightly be called "parenthetical". This means the author ceases his train of thought and addresses another issue before continuing. In verse 10 we see Paul about to launch into a discussion regarding the High Priesthood of Melchisedec, but sudden pulls back:

Hebrews 5:10-14 KJV
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

Paul wants to describe to them how the priesthood or of Melchisedec and the high priest (Jesus) after the order of Melchisedec is a better high priest than Aaron. But he pulls back and says he cannot do this becuause they are to "dull" or slow to hear.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Paul then begins to deliver and estimation of their progress in the word of God. Note carefully that he says that they had need that one teach them "which be the first principles of the oracles of God". This is very specific wording, and shows that their problem was not that the did not know enough word(these were people who grew up with the scriptures), rather their problem was one of missed priorities. They were not rightly dividing the word. The closing verses of chapter five become more specific regarding this failure:

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The last phrase "discern both good and evil" is incorrectly translated. We are talking about the word of God here. There is no evil here. The words should be translated "discern value from worthlessness." Numerous commentators and word studies concur with this interpretation. The Jewish believers had knowledge of the word, but because they could not discern what was important from what was not, they had to have someone come in and teach them "which were the first principles of the oracles of God". It is with this understanding that we enter into chapter 6.


Short review:
We are in a parenthetical passage and Paul has delivered an estimation of the Hebrews "word maturity." He has told them that they have lost sight of the first principles of the word and need someone teach them what these first principles were. You will not be able to understand Heb 6:4-6 unless you keep this context intact!

Chapter 6
Therefore in the context of the previous chapter, Paul in fact does just that, he reheases to them the first principles, and includes an exhortation for them to move on:
Hebrews 6:1-2 KJV
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
These are the very frist principles of the oracles of God that he was referring to in Chapter 5. We will list them out:

1. foundation of repentance from dead works
2. of faith toward God
3. the doctrine of baptisms
4. laying on of hands
5. resurrection of the dead
6. eternal judgment

((Dear friend, it is imperitive that you keep this passage in the same context throughout... failure to do so will cause you to create some very badly constructed doctrine!))

The words "let us go on" are better translated "be borne on". The idea being that these 6 doctrines will carry us on toward the stated goal, that of doctrinal maturity. So this is the exhortation that Paul delivers, and this exhortation must be kept in mind as we read on, as it too is key in correctly understanding the passage.
Now the stage is set to correctly translate the pasage in question. Paul now makes a important statement:
Hebrews 6:3 KJV
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The question I put to anyone trying to understand this passage is this: To do what?
The answer, in context with the preceeding verses is clear: To go on to doctrinal maturity. The entire parenthetical passage is addressing their doctrinal maturity. He has not changed the subject. He is still talking about their need to rightly divide and prioritize the the word of God. They need to correctly understand "which be the first principles" before they can more on to the mature principles.... and they will only do this "if God permit"

So finally we come to the verses in quesion! You must carry into these verses the understanding and context of the previous verses to comprehend their meaning.


We mentioned that the Hebrew believers were wanting to reestablish the daily sacrifice, and that Paul eventually addresses this issue in Chapter 7:27

Hebrews 7:27 KJV
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Now read what Paul says this error will do to their doctrine(he is still talking about doctine.... there has been no change of subject):

Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Verse 4 & 5 list the 5 "things that accompany salvation" (as they are referred to in verse 9):

1. enlightened
2. tasted of the heavenly gift
3. partakers of the Holy Ghost
4. tasted the good word of God
5. (tasted the)powers of the world to come

These experiences "accompany" the salvation of those who have rightly divided the word and have learned the first principles listed above. They are signs that you are on the right tract. (Paul eventually recants his estimation of their word maturity because these signs in fact where in them).

But this issue of the daily sacrifice is addressed in verse 6! The phase :For it is impossible" in verse 4 gramatically belongs to verse 6. We are still talking about doctrine here!

"For it is impossible.. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
If your doctrine is skewed(or "apostisied"), and you try to work the "daily offering for sin" into "the first principles of the oracles of God" as the Hebrews wanted to do, what would happen to you theoretical doctrine... not you.... but your doctrine? Your doctrine would require you to sacrifice Jesus every day! Over and over again you would expose Him to the shame and humiliation of the cross! Your fouled up (hypothetical) doctrine would do this, not you. This is not a statement about salvation or someone being lost or saved. It is not talking about sin or salvation. It is talking about doctrine and the effects of incorrectly assigning undue weigth to the OT ritual of the daily sacrifice. It is a hypothetical extrapolation illustrating the effects of this error on their doctrine and faith.
Look again at the verse:

"For it is impossible.. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Why would it be impossible? One of the first principles listed above is "repentance from dead works". This doctrine means that we no longer offer useless rituals such as the daily offerings. This is not talking about repentance from sins... it is talking about changing your mind about the OT rituals and other "dead works." To institute the daily ritual again would make this impossible because the doctrine would then be unworkable. You could not be "renewed unto repentance" by crucifying Jesus over and over again. That is just not going to happen! He is done. It is finished. It is impossible to do this because Jesus will not be sacrificed over and over again for your salvation.

The rest of Chapter 6 finishes the parenthetical passage. Chapter 7 picks back up where 5:12 left off. Paul recants his estimation of their word maturity:

Hebrews 6:9-10 NASB
9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.
10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints.

So all is well with them at the moment.
But I hope this helps some in their effort to understand the meaning of these verses. It has actually taken me many years of study and prayer to arrive at this undertanding, and I can only pray that the Spirit open this to your understanding also.
Blessings
Didaskalos

 

[theseed]

So Didaskalos,

you think that this passage is about the disgrace that Jesus goes through when someone tries to do goodworks to pay for thier sins, specifically, Jewish sacrifices?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

So Didaskalos,

you think that this passage is about the disgrace that Jesus goes through when someone tries to do goodworks to pay for thier sins, specifically, Jewish sacrifices?

Not really. He is just illustrating how unworkable the doctrine would become if they reinstituted the daily sacrifice. That is why he said "it is impossible."
The "impossible" is not referring to someone not being able to repent and renewed. The "impossible" it referring to Jesus not being "available" for the repetitive daily sacrifice. Because He is not available for the daily sacrifice, nobody would be able to be renewed unto repentance under this strange doctrine. It would be a humiliation for Him... and because it ain't gonna happen, it would be impossible for those believing this to be renewed unto repentance.

 

[d0c markus]

what do you think of post 8 and the article didskalos?

I have never ever heard your view before, which is wierd concerning i've been on these boards for a bit, not to mention read countless commentaries and articles about it..

 

[SavedByGrace3]

what do you think of post 8 and the article didskalos?

I find that many expositors of Heb 6 break a cardinal rule of interpretation... in that they ignore the context of the surrounding verses and in large part the context of the whole epistle. Why do they want to lift 3 verses up out the middle of a parenthetical passage and attempt to derive meaning apart from the whole document? That would be like reading only the 5th sentence in a newspaper story and pretending you got the whole story.

I have never ever heard your view before, which is wierd concerning i've been on these boards for a bit, not to mention read countless commentaries and articles about it..

I do not ask that any agree... I know it is different. But do you find it coherent and logical?

 

[d0c markus]

I find that many expositors of Heb 6 break a cardinal rule of interpretation... in that they ignore the context of the surrounding verses and in large part the context of the whole epistle. Why do they want to lift 3 verses up out the middle of a parenthetical passage and attempt to derive meaning apart from the whole document? That would be like reading only the 5th sentence in a newspaper story and pretending you got the whole story.

I do not ask that any agree... I know it is different. But do you find it coherent and logical?

Sorta, You will have to forgive me for not jumping in and accepting it, escpecially that general consensus of scholars never mention what your talking about. Its a new one that will be printed out and added to my library for future consideration.

God Bless ya, May he grant you wisdom.

- Brother Mark.

 

[pmarquette]

what does Isaiah describe about Satan's fall ?
who saw God , who knew God , who rejected God , who is cast out without
repentance ....

 

[theseed]

what does Isaiah describe about Satan's fall ?
who saw God , who knew God , who rejected God , who is cast out without
repentance ....

I'm not sure what your getting at, but I know Satan and his the fallen angels are not offered salvation.

 

[Believes Gods Sovereignity]

"Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." Phillippians 1:6 He who began a good work in you( hehe thats jesus) Will carry it on to completion (jesus will keep you in him through disciplines, prayer and fellowship, if you are truly his.) until the day of christ jesus. HHHMMM lets see Until his return??? Has he come back yet. :all together class: NNNOOO!!!! So is he still working in us to complete his work??? :ALL TOGETHER CLASS: YYYEEESSS!!!!!! wow. that concludes todays lesson.

 

[Henhouse]

Didaskalos made an interesting case, and I will read it again.

But before I read that, I thought of these two verses, and wondered if they might aid in the understanding of Hebrews 6.4-6.

2Peter2:20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.


Matt 19:24: And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25: When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26: But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[pmarquette]

I'm not sure what your getting at, but I know Satan and his the fallen angels are not offered salvation.

Isaiah 14 . 12-14 the " I wills " of satan , his fall , due to his pride
and offense , in the presense of God .... because he knew God
saw God , and rejected God by sight.... there was no forgiveness
for him and those who supported him

A parallel with the parable of the sower ... path , sandy ground , stony ground , good ground ... the conditions of the heart and the oppression that follows
many can be " Christian's " as long as there is no pressure , consequences ,
expectations ... many draw back and fall away when the persecution starts

those that blame God when a trajedy comes ... angry with Him , not satan

those that cannot reconcile frustration , situation , circumstance to the persecution of the word within them and the call of God upon them

those who refuse to put immature , selfish , and carnal things behind them that separate them from full fellowship with God.

backslidden .... sin separates you from fellowship with God ; though his child , attitude has hobbled you ... rededication , repentance , will restore you ...
when admit that what happened is of the devil or the consequences of another's sin , or the consequences of your actions .... has nothing to do with God ...

 

[theseed]

Possible interpations:
1) Arminians believe that this is talking about loseing one's salvation, but notice it is not possible to be saved a 2nd time

2)Some think this is not referring to genuine believers, the falling away is knowledge of truth, but not actually acting on it, therefore, no faith. They know Jesus saves, but come short of placing thier faith. I may know that a chair can hold me up, but if I don't sit in it, then I'm not placing my faith in it.

3)Some think that it is talking about true believers, but the "falling away" is only there to stregthen the warning. Hence, "It is impossible for a student to turn back the clock, once enrolled in the class, to start over again. Therefore, let all students go deeper into knowldege"

I find it hard to accept #1 becasue it does not allow for one to be saved more than once.

Bump