Heb 6.4-6

[AirForceTeacher]

What do these verses mean? They seem to suggest a 'one strike and you're out' policy, but that doesn't sound like the God whose "mercies are new every morning."

 

[woobadooba]

What do these verses mean? They seem to suggest a 'one strike and you're out' policy, but that doesn't sound like the God whose "mercies are new every morning."

You may get several different views on this one. But what I've discovered from this passage is that it
speaks of those who were once of the faith, but for some reason turned away from it (Heb. 6:4-5).

It's not that it's impossible for God to forgive them. If it were, then 1Jn. 1:9 would be a lie. Rather, it's that while in that state of being it is impossible to bring them to repentance because they aren't repentant. They know that what they're doing is wrong, but they just don't care. Their desire to yield to the carnal nature is greater than their desire is to yield to God.

You see, these are people who want their cake and they want to eat it too. They want to take Jesus' name, and live according to the ways of the world at the same time. Jesus said a man can't serve two masters at the same time and in the same sense (Matt. 6:24). We're either going to give God everything we've got, or nothing at all. We can't buy God's approval by giving Him gifts. God is no man's debtor. Instead, we must walk by faith, for that is pleasing to God (Heb. 11:6). But faith is dead without works (James 2:17). Therefore, if we are to walk by faith, then we must seek to walk even as Jesus walked (1Jn. 2:6).

Only focus on the wrath of God to the degree in which it reminds you of what you are without Christ. But abide in Christ, and know that salvation is sure for those who endure to the end (Matt. 24:13).

 

[tqpix]

Here is what Hebrews 6:4-6 say:

4: For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5: Have moreover tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come,

6: And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God and making him a mockery.

If we look at only the portion of the scripture I've bolded above, we have:

"It is impossible for those who were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God and making him a mockery."

Does not Matthew 12:31 say that if one blasphemes against the Holy Ghost, one shall not be forgiven?

[bible]Matthew 12:31[/bible]
I think I can see how apostatizing from the faith is considered blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in the eyes of God.

 

[AirForceTeacher]

So what does this mean in practice - I've backslidden multiple times, and I'm plagued with doubt. OTOH, I constantly pray for guidance, to see Him for who He truly is, and "help thou my unbelief." When do you know you've fallen away? What if you're still trying, but struggle mightily?

 

[woobadooba]

So what does this mean in practice - I've backslidden multiple times, and I'm plagued with doubt. OTOH, I constantly pray for guidance, to see Him for who He truly is, and "help thou my unbelief." When do you know you've fallen away? What if you're still trying, but struggle mightily?

Friend, please read my post again...

If you want to discuss this further send me a PM. I will help you through it.

You are not lost.

 

[pehkay]

B. Being Impossible to Renew Again to Repentance

Verse 4 says, "For it is impossible to renew again to repentance those who were once enlightened, and who have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit." Many Christian teachers misinterpret this verse and many preachers misuse it. They claim that Hebrews 6 says that if we sin after believing in the Lord, it is impossible for us to repent and be forgiven. This is not the meaning of this verse. It means that after you have repented once and have been stirred up to go on with the Lord, you do not need to repent again. In the eyes of the Lord, it is impossible for you to do this. Once the foundation has been laid, it is impossible to lay it again. Those who were once enlightened, who have tasted of the heavenly gift, have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, have tasted the good word of God and the works of power of the coming age, laid the foundation already at the time they believed. Once they have fallen away and returned back, there is no need for them to lay the foundation again. They should just rise up, go on, and be brought on to maturity. There is no need to repeat their repentance, for "it is impossible to renew again" that repentance. Verse 1 indicates that this is not needed; verse 4 says that it is not possible; and verses 7 and 8 show that it is not right. Thus, this verse does not mean that it is impossible for a believer to be forgiven if he has sinned. It means that there is no need for a Christian who has fallen to go back to repeat his original repentance. In the eyes of God, this is impossible.

The heavenly gift mentioned in verse 4 refers to God's giving of the heavenly things, such as His forgiveness, righteousness, divine life, peace, and joy at the time of our conversion. The Greek word translated "word" in verse 5 is rhema, meaning the instant word of God. The "good word of God" here refers to the word of the beginning of Christ mentioned in verse 1, which is the milk the Hebrew believers tasted when they believed in the Lord. Now they must go on to the deeper word, the word of righteousness (5:13), which is not mainly concerned with God's redemption but with the way of His economy, and which is the solid food for them to reach maturity (v. 1).

The word "power" in verse 5 refers to the divine power, and the "coming age" refers to the age of the coming kingdom. The divine power of the coming kingdom is to restore, renew, and revive the things which have become old (Matt. 19:28). At the time of the believers' regeneration (Titus 3:5), they all tasted this divine power that caused them to be restored, renewed, and revived.

Most Christian teachers say that the fallen-away one mentioned here is a false Christian. But how could one who has been enlightened, has tasted of the heavenly gift, has become a partaker of the Holy Spirit, and has tasted the good word of God and the works of power of the coming age be a false Christian? Most Christian teachers, not seeing the matter of reward and punishment, make a big mistake here. According to the context, such a fallen one is certainly a real Christian. He will never perish, but, as verse 8 reveals, he will suffer some punishment. Thus, he needs to come back and go on. In order to go on he does not need to go back to lay the foundation again. Even if he would go back to lay the foundation again, it would be impossible for him to do so, because whatever he would do could not be counted by God.

C. Crucifying Again the Son of God, Putting Him to Open Shame

The words "fallen away" in verse 6 refer to the Hebrew Christians' deviating from the pure Christian faith by returning to their old, traditional, Judaistic religion. In principle, this can be applied to any Christians who fall away from the right track of God's way.

This verse also speaks of "crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame." The words "crucifying" and "putting" modify the predicate "renew" in verse 4. To renew again to repentance means to repeat the repentance which one already has. This is not needed. To do this means that we crucify again the Son of God and put Him to open shame. If we would try to return to our original repentance, we would be laying again the foundation. In the eyes of God, this is to crucify the Lord again. The Lord was crucified for us, and at our original repentance we accepted that. If we would return to our original repentance, we would be crucifying Him again and putting Him to open shame. We must never do this.

The gist is this, be brought on to maturity in the divine life.

 

[DInsight]

Grace from God and peace from His Christ unto all!

Hebrews 6: 4-6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

1. Once Enlightened - means to have been brought out of darkness unto the marvelous light of Christ.
2. Tasted the heavenly gift - that is the salvation of God.
3. Partaker of the Holy Ghost - who is the bond of perfection (completion) and whose gifts perfects (completes) the saint.
4. Tasted the good word of God - means to have tasted goodness the word of the kingdom of God (personified as the Son of God).
5. Powers of the world to come - means to have obtained and used powers (dunamis/strength and exousia/authority) of the kingdom.

A saint that has gone through above sequential order is said to partake in the kingdom of God; he is a born of God and cannot sin.

Heb. 6:4-6 teaches what obtains sequentially in the life of a sinner born again into the kingdom of God.

In this sequential order, we also see that salvation is the beginning of (and prepares a saint for) eternal life in the kingdom of God.

It also warns against falling away after having partaken in the economy of the kingdom of God. It is impossible for a once redeemed saint to fall away and be restored into the kingdom.

 

[Beasley]

First of all nothing is impossible for God. So it is not impossible for God to renew them to repentance.

The problem is that everyone seems to be skipping over "let us" and "this we will do". Its impossible for us to get someone to change their mind about, in this case making animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin, but it could be any other false religious practice which denies the power of the Cross, but it is not impossible for God. Remember Peter even denied Christ. Christ told him that the Devil had requested permission to sift him like wheat and that when he had turned again,,,well Peter went on to be used by God in a glorious way. So while we may not be able to turn someone, God can.

Beasley

And

Airforce, it seems that God already has, he is just waiting for you to catch up.

 

[tqpix]

So what does this mean in practice - I've backslidden multiple times, and I'm plagued with doubt. OTOH, I constantly pray for guidance, to see Him for who He truly is, and "help thou my unbelief." When do you know you've fallen away? What if you're still trying, but struggle mightily?

Backsliding and Falling away are not the same thing. The Greek word for "falling away" is this:

G3895

παραπίπτω

parapiptō

par-ap-ip'-to

From G3844 and G4098; to fall aside, that is, (figuratively) to apostatize: - fall away.

You might have been plagued with doubt, but the fact that you've constantly prayed for guidance, etc., shows that you have not apostatized.

 

[daveleau]

What do these verses mean? They seem to suggest a 'one strike and you're out' policy, but that doesn't sound like the God whose "mercies are new every morning."

It is not speaking of salvation but of repentance. The Greek lends to the idea that one who understands the Gospel indepth, and tastes of the gifts within the church, yet rejects them (the Greek is harsher than mere and simple rejection, though) will not repent or return. This is not a statement denying or questioning eternal security (Heb 3 has a section that can be taken that way, but this passage does not). It is not a denial, as the passage says nothing of God's rejection, but addresses man's likeliness or ability to repent. Of course, God can do anything and can regenerate the person if He desires.

The intent of the passage is to keep people from backsliding (not in a losing-salvation-way, but in the idea that one is always either growing or backsliding due to inattention to discipleship.) The author of Hebrews was trying convince people not to disregard the teachings they have received.

I happened to be reading about this very passage today in Douglas Moo's Pillar Commentary on Hebrews, and in Gaebelein's Expositor's Bible Commentary, which both talk about the above in this light. Check out Kent's commentary from 1971, if you'd like a treatment of all the views on this passage.

In Him,
Dave

 

[daveleau]

What do these verses mean? They seem to suggest a 'one strike and you're out' policy, but that doesn't sound like the God whose "mercies are new every morning."

It is not speaking of salvation but of repentance. The Greek lends to the idea that one who understands the Gospel indepth, and tastes of the gifts within the church, yet rejects them (stops believing in Christ as Messiah...and, the Greek is harsher than mere and simple rejection, though) will not repent or return. This is not a statement denying or questioning eternal security (Heb 3 has a section that can be taken that way, but this passage does not). It is not a denial, as the passage says nothing of God's rejection, but addresses man's likeliness or ability to repent. Of course, God can do anything and can regenerate the person if He desires.

The intent of the passage is to keep people from backsliding (not in a losing-salvation-way, but in the idea that one is always either growing or backsliding due to inattention to discipleship.) The author of Hebrews was trying convince people not to disregard the teachings they have received.

I happened to be reading about this very passage today in Douglas Moo's Pillar Commentary on Hebrews, and in Gaebelein's Expositor's Bible Commentary, which both talk about the above in this light. Check out Kent's commentary from 1971, if you'd like a treatment of all the views on this passage.

Note Hebrews 12 on what occurs when we sin while saved (including backsliding, which is not the same as "falling away.")

In Him,
Dave

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

So what does this mean in practice - I've backslidden multiple times, and I'm plagued with doubt. OTOH, I constantly pray for guidance, to see Him for who He truly is, and "help thou my unbelief." When do you know you've fallen away?
What if you're still trying, but struggle mightily?

Like others have pointed out, there are big differences between backsliding and falling away (apostasy).

Backsliding means you are not being faithful to God's commands.

Apostasy means abandoning (denying) your faith in the Lord Jesus.

A backslider is one whose desires are still to please the Lord. A backslider will return, like Peter did after his denial of Christ before the crucifixion.

An apostate is one who abandons the faith for something else entirely, and has no desire to return their former faith in Jesus Christ.

In Hebrews and other places, the NT writers warn that if one denies their faith - basically turning their back on Jesus - then nothing else exists that will save them.

Paul wrote a trustworthy saying that might help:

2 Timothy 2:11-13
11 Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him, we will also live with him;
12 if we endure, we will also reign with him.
If we disown him, he will also disown us;
13 if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

Christians who have died with Christ (i.e., identified with Christ) will live with Jesus. Those who endure will reign with Christ.

Those who disown Jesus - deny Him - Jesus will disown them. These are apostates who deny Christ.

The last statement mentions those who are "faithless" - that is, backsliding Christians who are not living a faithful life. Jesus will remain faithful to them, because they belong to Him and are already "His." Christ will not deny or disown those who are truly His.


LDG