Heaven...Perfect?

[Mflourishes]

So everyone says that heaven is perfect and that there is no sin in heaven. A question sprung into my mind and I'd like some opinions. Everyone would agree that coveting is sin. Lucifer was kicked out of heaven because he coveted God's power; he wanted to be like God. Would this be a sin that Lucifer commited? Were angels perfect or not? If they were, where did this sin come from? If they weren't, then does this mean that heaven was not perfect and therefore is not perfect? Are there some verses to back up the theory that heaven is perfect?

=M

 

[CrimsonTideChristian]

I have often thought about this too and came up with this: If Heaven was perfect, then why is it destroyed in the end just the same as the earth? Revelation 21:1- Now I saw a new Heaven and a New Earth for the first Heaven and the first Earth had passed away. I think that there can be sin in Heaven, it is just far far less common on earth because they KNOW the true God and true SON.
- If God thought that we should know the answer to this question then I am sure it would be in the Bible. It is something to think about but I wouldn't really worry about it.

 

[FallingWaters]

Satan Was Never Lucifer

 

[FallingWaters]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No Sin in Heaven[/FONT]

 

[FallingWaters]

Sin in Heaven?

 

[holderz]

So everyone says that heaven is perfect and that there is no sin in heaven. A question sprung into my mind and I'd like some opinions. Everyone would agree that coveting is sin. Lucifer was kicked out of heaven because he coveted God's power; he wanted to be like God. Would this be a sin that Lucifer commited? Were angels perfect or not? If they were, where did this sin come from? If they weren't, then does this mean that heaven was not perfect and therefore is not perfect? Are there some verses to back up the theory that heaven is perfect?

=M

Hi Mflourishes, the doctrine of the Angelic Conflict or Kingdom conflict as others call it, answers all the questions you have stated.
very important subject as it tell us why we are really here & goes into a lot of details about satan & the angels.

I study under a Pastor named Robert McLaughlin (Grace Bible Church - non-denominational church) who teaches the Word of God from the original languages with no human/worldly influences/traditions,
just the straight up truth from the bible. he backs up everything he teaches from the original languages of the bible
i don’t have enough posts right now to drop a direct link
but if your interested

1.go grace bible churches web site gbible.org
2.from the areas on the left, go to archived classes
3. in the search window at the top of the page type in The Angelic Conflict, and all the latest audio classes (which are free to listen to and download) will be listed


Classes start from Nov 16, 05 onwards
check it out if your interested, hope this helps you
regards

 

[FallingWaters]

Do Angels Rebel Against God?

 

[Mflourishes]

i'm new here, is there somewhere I can search for topics and stuff? I didn't realize there were other topics like this.

 

[Mflourishes]

Thanks for your links.

 

[FallingWaters]

i'm new here, is there somewhere I can search for topics and stuff? I didn't realize there were other topics like this.

See the double purplish bars across the top of the page?
In the top bar, the first menu item is Search/Bible.
If you click on that, you can search CF if you choose that as one of your search options.
If it won't work because you haven't been a member long enough, or you just have trouble finding what you want, let me know and I'll help you find what you're looking for.

 

[believe2receive]

Just on the point of Lucifer coveting God in my opinion he wanted to overthrow him, so rather than a sinful thought Lucifer was ready to see it through and act to usurp our Father. So he was rightfully punished and fell.

 

[christianpunk20]

Yes. You have it right, Heaven is a perfect place. Though I have not yet searched for scriptural basis to if Heaven is perfect or not, one can simply use logic to understand that it is. Here is how: God sent his Son to die for our sins. But in order for Jesus to die for our sins, he had to be a perfect person... since a man who had already had committed sins, it would not be possible for him to also carry ours and be a sacrifice. Thus with our faith in Jesus Christ dieing for our sins... our transgression have been paid for by him. If Heaven wasn't a sinless/perfect place, there would have been no need for us to repent of our sins. But God sent Jesus so that they would be paid for, thus Heaven is, in fact, a perfect place.
But as far as your thoughts about angels, God created angels with free-will (as he did man) for various reasons... if you wish to know about free-will it should be a new thread.
Because of Lucifer's pride and desiring to be God, he was cast down "like a bolt of lightning". Since pride is a sin, Heaven being a sinless place, this is the reason he was cast down.
Hope this helped you. If you need me to explain further, feel free to pm me.

 

[bullman121]

Interesting question.

 

[JolieHeart]

Thank you all for the helpful info, links, and explanations. It is indeed interesting food for thought and I've learned something.

GBU all

 

[craig_on_fire]

I have often thought about this too and came up with this: If Heaven was perfect, then why is it destroyed in the end just the same as the earth? Revelation 21:1- Now I saw a new Heaven and a New Earth for the first Heaven and the first Earth had passed away. I think that there can be sin in Heaven, it is just far far less common on earth because they KNOW the true God and true SON.
- If God thought that we should know the answer to this question then I am sure it would be in the Bible. It is something to think about but I wouldn't really worry about it.

Earth and Heaven are not destroyed as so many evangelicals believe. The old testament tells of YHWH restoring creation, which of course includes both Heaven (God's dimension) and Earth (our dimension). The book of Revelation speaks of Heaven and Earth becoming joined completely (right now they interlock and overlap but there is still a veil due to sin) God's completed work will see that veil removed, and the joined heaven and earth populated by RESURRECTED, EMBODIED people.

 

[MessianicJewishGuy]

Satan Was Never Lucifer

Satan's personal name is from the Hebrew name: Haylale. Which also means Morning Star, which in tern in English is Lucifer. Thus yes his name is Lucifer.

 

[Reformationist]

So everyone says that heaven is perfect and that there is no sin in heaven. A question sprung into my mind and I'd like some opinions. Everyone would agree that coveting is sin. Lucifer was kicked out of heaven because he coveted God's power; he wanted to be like God. Would this be a sin that Lucifer commited? Were angels perfect or not? If they were, where did this sin come from? If they weren't, then does this mean that heaven was not perfect and therefore is not perfect? Are there some verses to back up the theory that heaven is perfect?

=M

The difference between the state in which angels were created and the state man will be in when he is glorified in Heaven is that God will confirm us in grace, making our perfection immutable, whereas the angels were created in a state of mutable perfection.

Like pre-Fall man, angels were created posse peccare et posse non peccare, able to sin and able to not sin. Fallen man lost the attribute of posse non peccare and became posse peccare et non posse non peccare, able to sin and not able to not sin. Glorified man will be confirmed in grace and be posse non peccare et non posse peccare, able to not sin and not able to sin.

God bless