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Qwertyui0p

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You may want to read The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel. Chapter 6 deals with hell and the questions it raises. https://www.amazon.com/Case-Faith-Journalist-Investigates-Christianity/dp/0310339294
Your idea of heaven and hell seems to be closer to reincarnation than what the bible says.
We do have free will, which doesn't mean God isn't sovereign. consider acts 4:23-30. They affirm that God is sovereign, and in verse 27 say 'indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your hoy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.'
 
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Neogaia777

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No offense to a lot of you on here, but you guys might want to try "raising your consciousness" or conscious awarenesses a little bit...

You would see what I'm talking about, or would see what I am seeing, if you did...

God Bless!
 
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Cis.jd

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I know, but I'm saying it's like piece of some of the past christian assumptions heard. Thing is though, how is it hell.. and since they are in a state of "limbo" until the end, are they going to be judged again and then thrown to the "lake of fire"?

Your assumption sounds more closer to purgatory more than hell.
 
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Neogaia777

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They are not in a state of "limbo" till the end, but are asleep and not conscious after they until they are brought back again in the next creation, and they have no consciousness of it or that ever either...

The dead at the end of this creation are "examined", to see if they should go to Heaven, or stay asleep and remain or be cycled or recycled in Hell, or whether they should go to Heaven or be cycled or recycled again and again, over and over "here" or in other creations, or stay in realities like here, in the next creation after that, at that final judgement or examination at the very end of this creation, etc...

I understand you a Catholic and believe in a kind of "purgatory" where the dead are alive and awake and fully aware and conscious, etc, and are being "consciously tormented there", so to speak, etc, but I do not believe it is Biblical and is not a concept or idea that I share...

The dead sleep (most of them) until they are brought back again, either to go to Heaven or to be in a Heaven, or else for more of "this" or realities like these still, very much repeating the same kinds of lives they had before in the previous creation, but in another, next creation, or new creation after that, etc...

Most sleep until that time and are not conscious or aware of the fact that they were ever dead or were sleeping (and most of them not even aware that had been judged) but, anyway, most sleep until that time and are not conscious or aware of the fact that they were ever dead or were sleeping no matter what and where they go to after that, at that time, etc...

You just die, then wake up in one place or the other, not even aware that they/you were ever even dead or that they/you had died, but some wake up in Heaven, and the ones that go to Heaven will be made aware of the fact that had died and will have a conscious awareness of it "after that", just no real rememberance of it, but all the "other ones" that did not get to go to Heaven, but will just get more of this, will never be really truly aware of the fact that they had ever died or were dead, or are stuck in eternal death and/or dying ever, but will just be continually recycled in realities like these, without any real conscious awareness ever that they are only meant for this or these kinds of lives or life only and are only being continually recycled, etc, ever, etc, "forever", etc, or are stuck in eternal death, etc...

Anyway, just my take though anyway...

God Bless!
 
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Cis.jd

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But this is still all a state of limbo. Limbo doesn't need to be conscience. There are so many different views on Purgatory, some are more closer to how EO's view it. I mean, what you just described is a pause... a specific state of the being.
 
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Neogaia777

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But this is still all a state of limbo. Limbo doesn't need to be conscience. There are so many different views on Purgatory, some are more closer to how EO's view it. I mean, what you just described is a pause... a specific state of the being.
I added a bit to my post...

As long as you know the great, great majority of the dead are not conscious or are ever truly awake and aware of it, etc, then that's good enough for me...

And "awake" with no real conscious awareness of it ever, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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But this is still all a state of limbo. Limbo doesn't need to be conscience. There are so many different views on Purgatory, some are more closer to how EO's view it. I mean, what you just described is a pause... a specific state of the being.
Did you see my post #8 on how it is like going under anesthesia until we are go to either place, or wake up in one of the either "places", etc...

Some again and again and again, over and over again, but for those going to Heaven, only once, to never go through it or experience it ever again, etc...

Post #9 on that point also, or as well, etc...

Anyway, did you see them...?

God Bless!
 
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Zachm531

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Its unfair that God would choose anyone to go to Heaven. Fair would be that we all go to hell because we are all horrible sinners and that fact that He saves even one person is crazy.
Romans 6:23
John 8:34
Ive been teetering on the edge of Calvinism because of John 6, Ephesians and Romans.
John 8:34 says that we are SLAVES to sin. Do slaves have freedom? No, they wouldnt be slaves, right? So if we are SLAVES to sin, we dont have free will. I’d agree with you there.
It seems like your hell definition is like an eternal, spiritual reincarnation on repeat. Which i dont see anywhere in scripture. I see the first death and the second death. Revelation 20:14 and thats for the unbelievers. It does seem as if Hell is a place of sleep or unconsciousness. Psalms 13:3-4
But it may be for believers and unbelievers alike until the resurrection:
1 Kings 11:43
1 Thessalonians 4:16
Interesting take on these “revelations”. Always test in against scripture though! Honestly I didnt read the entire thing BUT always test private revelation against scripture.
Acts 17:10-11(for some reason this wont link so:
“And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:10-11‬)
Deuteronomy 13:1-5
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
 
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Neogaia777

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It all boils down to this: For God to be and always have been always 100% Sovereign, or always have been from before the beginning 100% totally and completely and 100% fully omniscient or all-knowing always from, and always and from before the beginning, etc, there can be no true free will, not really anyway, or true free will cannot really exist from that ones point of view and/or perspective, etc...

And it also means that God already determined and predetermined (all) already, and already chose everything for us from (before) the very beginning, etc, and we are not our own, or the masters of our own destinies, or are (or ever become ever) people of our own making ever, etc...

Regardless or irregardless of if we either go to one place, or the other, etc... God already chose it all and did it all already, determined/predetermined it all long, long ago already, and does it all for us already, etc, we are only ever just discovering it or uncovering it, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Zachm531

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Hes shows His mercy and love in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 and He shows his
justice and judgement by allowing some to continue in their sin into eternal damnation. Revelation 21:8
Isaiah 9:6-7

The crazy things is that God is predestining people to not be saved but at the same time, He’s just letting them do what they want, He gave them over to their sins and lusts. We all want to sin, he gives grave to some, we may never know why He chose us but i’m do grateful that He did. The word of God NEVER returns void. Isaiah 55:11 . So either God is wrong and the Holy Spirit fails in converting some people or God has an elect that are able to receive his word. John 6:39-44 . Which one makes more sense?
 
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Cis.jd

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Yes.. "UNTIL". That word already implied a version of limbo.
 
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Neogaia777

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Yes.. "UNTIL". That word already implied a version of limbo.
It depends on whether you mean conscious or not "limbo", cause I don't think it is conscious, etc...

When most people use the term "limbo", especially in a Christian or religious or Catholic sense, they almost always mean some kind of "conscious" limbo, etc, but that is not what I mean here, etc, I mean some kind of "not conscious" limbo or pause or "sleep", etc...

Where when you wake, you don't have and kind of consciousness or conscious recollection of it at all ever, or that you were ever asleep or dead or whatnot or whatever, unless you go to Heaven and are then told that you are or were, etc, but not and not all ever if you do not go to Heaven at all ever, etc...

Your just in "Hell" and don't know it ever, if you do not ever get to go to or ever wake up in Heaven at all ever, etc...

People that were always only meant for a very different purpose than those that do get to Heaven ever, "forever", etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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@Neogaia777

CAN YOU SHARE WITH US WHO YOU LISTENED TO, TO GET YOUR INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE
Most all of this is my interpretation of scripture...?

I don't know if I completely understand, etc...?

Do you mean scripture you guys provided...?

Cause if so, please present them one or just a few at a time and I will try to adress them, OK...?

God Bless!
 
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Original Happy Camper

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JacksBratt

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I don't think Paul was all that well informed as people think.
I would have to disagree with this.. The works of his that are now part of the canon... were inspired by God. How much more "informed" would you like him to be?
 
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Neogaia777

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2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
So what then, I only need just a few people to agree with me, or what...? By the mouth of two or three witnesses, etc...?

I was hoping you'd actually post some scripture that is in actual relation to the topic and what is being discussed, but, "whatever" I guess...

I guess I can already see where you heart really is or is truly at with this (and me) right now anyway, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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What scripture do you use if not the Holy Bible?
Look, either you want to post some scripture in relation to the topic or what is being discussed, and "discuss" them, or you don't, or discuss the ideas or things or topic being discussed, or you don't, etc, but I'm not up for "games", etc, OK...?

And in fact I'm going to have to try and get to sleep soon until tomorrow or later, so make it quick would you OK...?

God Bless!
 
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