Heart

[Heinrich]

Somebody said this in the thread "BAPTISM OF HOLY SPIRIT":

Given that the Bible says that the heart is decietfully wicked, I don't know that that's a good thing.

I believe this is wrong!
God says that He will give us a new heart when we are born again. (saved)
Yes when we are still lost and child of Adam (or the devil so to speak) our heart is corrupted. But when we are saved we have a new heart!

I believe this is this is one doctrine in the church which is not of God!
You have a GOOD HEART!

I will give some scriptures later (I'm not at home at the moment)
And then I will post some more on this.

 

[MikeMcK]

Somebody said this in the thread "BAPTISM OF HOLY SPIRIT":

That was me who said that.

I believe this is wrong!

The passage this verse is from is speaking to both the wicked and the righteous but it doesn't make the distinction among the two so it's reasonable to assume that it's speaking of both.

God says that He will give us a new heart when we are born again. (saved)

Where?

I believe this is this is one doctrine in the church which is not of God!
You have a GOOD HEART!

I tend to agree with the Apostle Paul's view of man's "heart" which is decidedly more pessimistic.

 

[Heinrich]

Hi Mike! Thanks for replying.

(Yes I know it was you but left it up to you to say it was you if you get what I mean)

Firstly I guess we can have one very long debate on exactly what is meant by the heart. I don't think I know the correct answer but I would like to think it would fit in somewhere along spirit or soul or a bit of both? Def not flesh.

Where is that verse your talking about? I'm not that good on scripture

Ok I guess I should give some scriptures and stuff now?

Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life. - Prov 4:23
(Well maybe there is some good in there?)

I pray also that the eyes of the heart may be enlightened. - Eph 1:18
(Why would Paul want the eyes of our heart to be enlightned if it is all bad?)

Love the LORD your GOD with all your heart - Deut 6:5
(Why would God want you to love him with a wicked heart?)

Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart - 1 Sam 16:7

Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean no on your own understanding - Prov 3:5
(Once again this points to your heart being above your understanding... Much like your spirit should be above your soul... I might be wrong on the second part)

For this people's heart has become calloused; ....
understanding with there hearts and turn and I would heal them. Mat 13:5
(The heart is the place of true believe)

Jesus said "He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, ...
This comes from Is 61:1 (not gonna search the NT passage now)

From Jeremiah 31:31-33
"The time is coming" declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant"
(this is now)
"I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts"

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. -Ezekiel 36:26-27


Create in me a clean hear, O GOd. - Ps 51:10

The seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, Luke 8:15
(So atleast for some the heart can be good)

He Heals the brokenhearted and bings up their wounds Ps 147:3

Ok not all scriptures are directly applicable here but I hope you get the idea that the bible does not teach that the heart is a bad thing.

bye for now

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Somebody said this in the thread "BAPTISM OF HOLY SPIRIT":
God says that He will give us a new heart when we are born again. (saved)
Yes when we are still lost and child of Adam (or the devil so to speak) our heart is corrupted. But when we are saved we have a new heart!
I believe this is this is one doctrine in the church which is not of God!
You have a GOOD HEART!
I will give some scriptures later (I'm not at home at the moment)
And then I will post some more on this.

Quite right!!!!


2Co 5:17
17 So that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new!

Eph 2:10
10 for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God before prepared that we should walk in them.

Gal 6:15
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision has any strength nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

Col 3:10
10 and having put on the new, having been renewed in full knowledge according to the image of the One creating him,

Eph 4:24
24 and to put on the new man, which according to God was created in righteousness and true holiness.

Gal 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, the One loving me and giving Himself over on my behalf.

2 Peter 1:3
3 As His divine power has given to us all things pertaining to life and godliness through the full knowledge of the One calling us through glory and virtue,
4 by which means He has given to us the very great and precious promises, so that through these you might be partakers of the divine nature, escaping from the corruption in the world by lust.

1 John 3:9
9 Everyone who has been begotten of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

1Jo 5:18
18 We know that everyone being generated from God does not sin, but the one having been generated from God keeps himself, and the evil one does not touch him.

 

[MikeMcK]

Ok not all scriptures are directly applicable here but I hope you get the idea that the bible does not teach that the heart is a bad thing.

There are many that teach that the heart is not a bad thing but what you have to remember is that "heart" here is figurative.

It can have either good or bad connotations, depending on the context in which it's used.

 

[Heinrich]

Yes I think I agree.
I would be better to discuss this with connection to specific verses maybe?

But I think maybe it comes down to this:
Your human (flesh) part is bad. It's of the world. It is still part of the world and not regenerated.
But that which is inside you. (Your heart/spirit) That was regenerated and is now good!

Am I making any sense?

 

[Follower of Christ too]

Yes I think I agree.
I would be better to discuss this with connection to specific verses maybe?

But I think maybe it comes down to this:
Your human (flesh) part is bad. It's of the world. It is still part of the world and not regenerated.
But that which is inside you. (Your heart/spirit) That was regenerated and is now good!

Am I making any sense?

That sounds right to me . We understand the heart is figurative...For instance one of my foster son's girlfriends broke up with him, now he says his heart is broke! Now he knows his heart is still in one piece but he is hurting. (most of us know the feeling). That is a carnal reference, there are spiritual references in the scripture.For an example Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

 

[Trish1947]

God is dealing with all of us from the "heart" level. This is your spiritual man. Thats where He makes the changes in us. I looked in my concordance under "Heart"

Of the Wicked:
Blind
Darkened
Covetous
Despitful
Full of Evil
Hard
Lustful
Proud
Rebellious

GOD'S ACTION ON:
Knows
Searches
Prepares
Enlightens

Finished Work on the Heart
Circumcised
Clean
Confident
Enlarged
Established
Joyful in God
Made Perfect
Prayerful
Pure
Sincere
Tender
Wise
Zealous
Loves God
Sanctifies God
Trusts
So we can see that this work of the Holy Spirit starts from the inside.

 

[superdave]

Mans heart is not wicked. For Every Man I believe has a great heart within him. Like what was said before, the flesh is what is wicked. For we live in this world- and we have flawed human vessels- therefore, the flesh IS ALWAYS wicked. The Heart is the very essence of the person. When the Flesh controls the Heart- the decisions that are made out of the flesh will begin to harden the heart. But when we live according to the Holy Spirit we are act according to what the spirit says.

 

[Georgius]

Is the heart of a man wicked or righteous? Indeed.

This is the reason I believe we are here on Earth living our lives out step by step. God is finding out what is in our hearts. Ok, so state that in any temporal fashion you want, i.e. God KNOWS our hearts; KNEW our hearts; etc. I do not know why God created everything and everyone. Why he has felt the need to create trillions of us and have us live out our lives here on Earth. I do know He is Awesome, Loving and that He has a plan!

Scriptural Examination:

-There are lots of examples being hardened (Pharaoh etc.) so I won't list them all, if you want go to the Bible Gateway and do a search. So we know hearts CAN be wicked sometimes.

-Can hearts be good?

The Sermon on the Mount is particularly relevant to this discussion as it is all about the Heart of a Man. It is found in Matthew Chapter 5.

Here Jesus says:
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Matt 5:8 -- Whoa! Guess pure heart IS possible

He also says:
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matt 5:28 -- Uhh ok, so the heart is kinda important we are seeing...

-Can the ENTIRE heart be salvaged or just in part?

Well Paul says in Romans:
God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you... Romans 1:9

You see, I believe that out of a Man's heart flow the issues of his life. If you are having challenges in life it is most likely due to a heart condition. There are all kinds of heart conditions as we see in everyday life as well as the Scripture.

This is why I love the prayer of "Create in me a clean heart oh God" Praise and Glory to the Knower-of-Hearts!

 

[Trish1947]

Wicked hearts have the ability to love along with their wickedness. Saddam for example, a murderer, but loved his grandchildren, or any of the despots that have come down the line have loved, along with thier wickedness.
Jesus knew what man was capable of. "He did not commit Himself to Man, because he KNEW what was in man." People are born into sin, and mans heart is wicked according to God if you even have a bad thought. Out of the abundance of the Heart the mouth speaks. If the heart has not been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, then your heart is wicked. Because your intensions, what you say, or do, is not Christ centered, its usually for a selfish standpoint. You may do all sorts of good deeds, and have a reputation as a good man, and have the ability to love much, but its still not Christ centered. Remember the harlot that came to Jesus and washed His feet with her hair? She did alot of wicked deeds from her heart but she had the capacity to love much. But her life still was not Christ centered. And Jesus read something in each Apostles heart when he chose them, BUT, their lives were not Christ centered.
So there is SOME redeeming quality of the heart, even before the Holy Spirit starts to make changes. So there is both in man, but its mostly evil, and definatly not good enough.

God said he destroyed the earth because "Mans heart (thoughts) had become evil continuously". At that point there was no redeeming quality of the heart of man at all. So they had to be destroyed, except for the eight.

 

[Georgius]

Wow Trish! That's awesome stuff. I agree with everything you said there. I think the crucial point (as you pointed out) is that we need to have the renewed heart through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Thanks for your words!

 

[TheRickster]

Good deal Trish!!!

Merry Christmas Everyone!!! Let the Love shine through!!!

 

[enoch son]

God is dealing with all of us from the "heart" level. This is your spiritual man. Thats where He makes the changes in us. I looked in my concordance under "Heart"

Of the Wicked:
Blind
Darkened
Covetous
Despitful
Full of Evil
Hard
Lustful
Proud
Rebellious

GOD'S ACTION ON:
Knows
Searches
Prepares
Enlightens

Finished Work on the Heart
Circumcised
Clean
Confident
Enlarged
Established
Joyful in God
Made Perfect
Prayerful
Pure
Sincere
Tender
Wise
Zealous
Loves God
Sanctifies God
Trusts
So we can see that this work of the Holy Spirit starts from the inside.

Note that these are all conditon of the spirit (fruits or deeds of the flesh). God gives a spirit to man to life. God blow into adam and he became a living soul. That spirit goes back to God. The spirit of man or of the soul is a different story. It has to states, new or old or alive or dead. There is no 1/2 state in the new creation of God it is a finshed state of being. The heart of a man I do not know if our new body even needs one?