Healthy communication?

[ImaginaryDay]

New thread as I didn't want to take the other off topic. But I wanted to respond to something very specific:

This just seems like Relationships 101, but this is from Danny Silk (Keep Your Love On)

Healthy communication = it is my job to tell you what is going on inside of me, and it is your job to tell me what is going on inside of you. We do not have powers of telepathy or the right to assume we know one another’s thoughts, motives, feelings or needs.

Our JOB? Noooooooo.....
I respect my wife to let her know what is going on with me, sharing with her my thoughts, feelings, and desires. And she respects me enough to do the same. There are days where either of us might need time to sort these things out on our own before are able to share them with each other, but... our job? No. I am responsible to God for my wife. Out of that responsibility I do the things I do as her husband and do my best to grow in the likeness of Christ in the marriage. If certain things become our 'job' as spouses, it is no longer about growing in Christ, but about the responsibilities (or norms) that Christian culture sets up.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

It appears your issue is with the word "job." I guess it depends on how you define it. My father, misguided as he often was, when questioned about his methods would answer, "That's my job." It was the task he thought God gave him to do. Even though it actually wasn't, and he was totally misunderstanding his "job," I still give him props for trying to do what he thought he was supposed to do.

Cue the old Conway Twitty song about a father and son, "That's My Job." *sniffle*

I guess you could say "it's my calling," or "it's my responsibility," although that would have been hard to rhyme in the song.

Conway Twitty - Thats My Job - YouTube

 

[LilLamb219]

Yeah, I agree also that I think it's the word "job" that is causing you to not like the idea.

Is there a better word to use? Probably. But the part about not being telepathic is true. We can't have the expectation that our spouses will automatically know what is on our mind or bothering us. We have to be verbal. So although it's not a requirement, it's beneficial to the relationship to talk openly.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Quick question: Tonight as hubby was watching a TV program, I started to tell him something, and he almost imperceptibly sighed and rolled his eyes. Then it occurred to me, even though this is a rerun he's probably seen a few times (he likes to watch the classic TV channels) he probably wants me to hold on to it until a commercial. So I offered to do that, and he said thank you.

Maybe he should have verbally told me to wait because he's trying to hear the dialog, but we've established he's not real verbal. I'm fortunate I could read his non-verbal cues this time. They're not always as visible as they were in that particular instance, and they were very subtle then. Given that fact, is the burden on him to learn to tell me directly, or on me to get to know him well enough to read him even though he's harder to read than most? Or is it a combination of both?

 

[razzelflabben]

New thread as I didn't want to take the other off topic. But I wanted to respond to something very specific:





Our JOB? Noooooooo.....
I respect my wife to let her know what is going on with me, sharing with her my thoughts, feelings, and desires. And she respects me enough to do the same. There are days where either of us might need time to sort these things out on our own before are able to share them with each other, but... our job? No. I am responsible to God for my wife. Out of that responsibility I do the things I do as her husband and do my best to grow in the likeness of Christ in the marriage. If certain things become our 'job' as spouses, it is no longer about growing in Christ, but about the responsibilities (or norms) that Christian culture sets up.

this seems like a syntax argument to me...so let me offer this, as a kind of counter balance. You talk about growing in righteousness, but isn't growing in righteousness your "job" as in what you are required to do in order to receive the benefits of a life in Christ. For example, we were according to scripture created for good works in Christ, that would make it our job to do good works in Christ.

As to the marriage, I personally would suggest that our "job" is to help one another grow in righteousness (Ephesians 5) as well as building the kind of unity that will make our marriage be until death do us part. In addition, our "job" is to allow our lives together to reflect to the world around us the love Christ had for the church and the response the church should give to that love. (Ephesians 5) Now we could substitute the word....say...duty, purpose, goal, desire, etc. for the word job, but the meaning doesn't change at all when we do, so if the meaning doesn't change, wouldn't it be more important to focus on the meaning than the word usage? Just a thought for what it's worth?

 

[razzelflabben]

Quick question: Tonight as hubby was watching a TV program, I started to tell him something, and he almost imperceptibly sighed and rolled his eyes. Then it occurred to me, even though this is a rerun he's probably seen a few times (he likes to watch the classic TV channels) he probably wants me to hold on to it until a commercial. So I offered to do that, and he said thank you.

Maybe he should have verbally told me to wait because he's trying to hear the dialog, but we've established he's not real verbal. I'm fortunate I could read his non-verbal cues this time. They're not always as visible as they were in that particular instance, and they were very subtle then. Given that fact, is the burden on him to learn to tell me directly, or on me to get to know him well enough to read him even though he's harder to read than most? Or is it a combination of both?

I'm going with both...if we are to help one another through this life, then it is counter productive for only one person to make the effort that would result in a positive change.

 

[Hetta]

Yeah, I agree also that I think it's the word "job" that is causing you to not like the idea.

Is there a better word to use? Probably. But the part about not being telepathic is true. We can't have the expectation that our spouses will automatically know what is on our mind or bothering us. We have to be verbal. So although it's not a requirement, it's beneficial to the relationship to talk openly.

Well said.

The word used is not important - it's the idea that we are responsible for communicating to our spouse that is important.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Quick question: Tonight as hubby was watching a TV program, I started to tell him something, and he almost imperceptibly sighed and rolled his eyes. Then it occurred to me, even though this is a rerun he's probably seen a few times (he likes to watch the classic TV channels) he probably wants me to hold on to it until a commercial. So I offered to do that, and he said thank you.

Maybe he should have verbally told me to wait because he's trying to hear the dialog, but we've established he's not real verbal. I'm fortunate I could read his non-verbal cues this time. They're not always as visible as they were in that particular instance, and they were very subtle then. Given that fact, is the burden on him to learn to tell me directly, or on me to get to know him well enough to read him even though he's harder to read than most? Or is it a combination of both?

My wife annoyingly does this sometimes during a sports game or a favorite show. I have to resist the temptation to ignore her and watch what's happening on the tv. Out of respect for her and to not reject her, though, I may mute the tv and try to maintain eye contact with her as she is talking. If I don't she will clam up and not speak and feelings will be hurt. Then I have to spend more energy to undo all that than it is to mute the tv. I just wish she would recognize my interest in what's on tv and wait until a commercial as LBF did above.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Yeah, I agree also that I think it's the word "job" that is causing you to not like the idea.

Is there a better word to use? Probably. But the part about not being telepathic is true. We can't have the expectation that our spouses will automatically know what is on our mind or bothering us. We have to be verbal. So although it's not a requirement, it's beneficial to the relationship to talk openly.

Absolutely right. The key is that our spouses don't automatically know our thoughts/motives/desires. I think sometimes that if we make a 'requirement' out of it, though, it takes some of the relational aspect out of it, and that's how I took some of the meaning. Perhaps in context the quote might have been a little more clear, too.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

My wife annoyingly does this sometimes during a sports game or a favorite show. I have to resist the temptation to ignore her and watch what's happening on the tv. Out of respect for her and to not reject her, though, I may mute the tv and try to maintain eye contact with her as she is talking. If I don't she will clam up and not speak and feelings will be hurt. Then I have to spend more energy to undo all that than it is to mute the tv. I just wish she would recognize my interest in what's on tv and wait until a commercial as LBF did above.

It often happened to me in reverse during my first marriage. We might be watching a funny show, say a stand-up comic act or a sketch comedy, and he'd time it so that he talked over the punch line and made me miss it. He did it over and over again, throughout the whole show. I never heard the ending of a single joke. I know now that he was doing this calculatedly (he has admitted it) with the intent that I would eventually get annoyed and ask him to please stop talking and let me hear the TV, and he could be offended. "Well! It seems like *I* ought to be more important to you than that blankety-blank TV show!" It then provided him with the excuse he needed to justify abusing me.

You didn't say, so I need to ask: Have you specifically told her it bothers you, and requested that she wait until a commercial?

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Quick question: Tonight as hubby was watching a TV program, I started to tell him something, and he almost imperceptibly sighed and rolled his eyes. Then it occurred to me, even though this is a rerun he's probably seen a few times (he likes to watch the classic TV channels) he probably wants me to hold on to it until a commercial. So I offered to do that, and he said thank you.

Maybe he should have verbally told me to wait because he's trying to hear the dialog, but we've established he's not real verbal. I'm fortunate I could read his non-verbal cues this time. They're not always as visible as they were in that particular instance, and they were very subtle then. Given that fact, is the burden on him to learn to tell me directly, or on me to get to know him well enough to read him even though he's harder to read than most? Or is it a combination of both?

I won't get too much into this (because I don't want to derail my own thread ), but some of that has to do with what's been called 'Social Intelligence' - recognizing those social cues down to the level of facial expressions, and learning to respond to them. Those cues actually shape our brains on the neural level and affect how we respond to people, especially those we are intimately connected to. And to me, that's one part science, and 99 parts an amazing clue as to how God has shaped us. It gets to the heart, actually, of what I was trying to get across. When we become so intimately aware of those who are closest to us, it becomes not so much a job, but a natural part of the relationship to maintain that level of intimacy if we want the relationship to continue to grow and develop. Or, to use and old slogan, "use it or lose it".

 

[Hetta]

It's a requirement for those who want a happy and healthy marriage. If people don't speak up, then they may leave a spouse floundering in a sea of worry. People who love their spouse don't do that.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

this seems like a syntax argument to me...so let me offer this, as a kind of counter balance. You talk about growing in righteousness, but isn't growing in righteousness your "job" as in what you are required to do in order to receive the benefits of a life in Christ. For example, we were according to scripture created for good works in Christ, that would make it our job to do good works in Christ.

As to the marriage, I personally would suggest that our "job" is to help one another grow in righteousness (Ephesians 5) as well as building the kind of unity that will make our marriage be until death do us part. In addition, our "job" is to allow our lives together to reflect to the world around us the love Christ had for the church and the response the church should give to that love. (Ephesians 5) Now we could substitute the word....say...duty, purpose, goal, desire, etc. for the word job, but the meaning doesn't change at all when we do, so if the meaning doesn't change, wouldn't it be more important to focus on the meaning than the word usage? Just a thought for what it's worth?

You may be right. For some, the idea of these things being a person's 'job' in the relationship (framed the way you described it) wouldn't evoke the same type of response as it did for me. The important part is realizing and following through on the commitment we have made to our spouse in marriage. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Inkachu]

Yeah, insert whatever other word you feel fits. Duty, responsibility, whatever. And it's absolutely true. Don't complain that I didn't respond to x-y-z when you never cared to share it with me in the first place. Same goes for me, I can't get mad at you for not responding to whatever fly was up my butt, when I didn't have the wherewithal to even tell you about it.

BigDaddy - that's not exclusively a guy thing! I CANNOT multi-task. My brain just won't do it. If I'm reading at the computer (news article, email, etc) and my husband or son walks in the room and just starts talking, it takes a few seconds for it to register with me that someone's talking to me. So I have to force myself to stop paying attention to whatever I was reading, refocus, look away from it, and say "Sorry, what?" to the person who's talking to me. And they have to start over again, which often draws sighs and eyerolls lol. Oh well!

Or I'll be watching TV and just "vegging" in the bedroom, and my brain is really in limbo mode. Hubby walks in, starts talking without even seeing if he's got my attention, and I'll sigh a little, mute the TV, and give him my attention, at which point he usually says "Sorry!" in this exasperated voice, like I'm being really dramatic or making him feel awful or something. Truth is, I can't watch TV and listen to him. I choose to give him my attention by muting the TV. It's not dramatic. I'm happy to talk to him instead of watching TV. But he sees he's interrupted something that I'm doing, and I guess he gets a little defensive lol. Not my problem! I'm here, I'm listening, talk or don't talk

Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I was taught that you don't just start blabbering without getting the person's attention first. If I walk into the office when hubby's at his computer, I don't just start talking and expect him to instantly be listening; that's arrogant to me. I say "Hey babe?" and then I WAIT for an answer. I might even add "Are you busy?" if it's something that can wait until later. That's just basic manners to me. I try to impart that to my husband and son - please get my attention before just starting into a monologue that I'm not listening to - but it doesn't seem to get through too well lol.

 

[razzelflabben]

I won't get too much into this (because I don't want to derail my own thread ), but some of that has to do with what's been called 'Social Intelligence' - recognizing those social cues down to the level of facial expressions, and learning to respond to them. Those cues actually shape our brains on the neural level and affect how we respond to people, especially those we are intimately connected to. And to me, that's one part science, and 99 parts an amazing clue as to how God has shaped us. It gets to the heart, actually, of what I was trying to get across. When we become so intimately aware of those who are closest to us, it becomes not so much a job, but a natural part of the relationship to maintain that level of intimacy if we want the relationship to continue to grow and develop. Or, to use and old slogan, "use it or lose it".

true enough, but all the skill in non verbal clues in the world, will not help when I come home exhausted, 5 kids needing something from me, the phone ringing, and dinner on the stove burning, and my husband says, "why didn't you pick up on my facial clues that I wanted you to wait"? Point being, where it is important to learn how to use those clues, it is equally important to not expect your spouse to rely on them rather than relying on actual verbal communication.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

It's a requirement for those who want a happy and healthy marriage. If people don't speak up, then they may leave a spouse floundering in a sea of worry. People who love their spouse don't do that.

Reading through some of the responses, I was beginning to think of some scenarios where stronger language might be appropriate to use (i.e. job, requirement, etc.) and while I don't disagree with the idea for those who use those concepts, I believe we can go beyond them to higher goals, while keeping the basics in mind.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

true enough, but all the skill in non verbal clues in the world, will not help when I come home exhausted, 5 kids needing something from me, the phone ringing, and dinner on the stove burning, and my husband says, "why didn't you pick up on my facial clues that I wanted you to wait"? Point being, where it is important to learn how to use those clues, it is equally important to not expect your spouse to rely on them rather than relying on actual verbal communication.

Right. It has to do with intimacy on a verbal as well as non verbal level. Responding to the obvious as well as the subtle.

 

[Hetta]

Yeah, insert whatever other word you feel fits. Duty, responsibility, whatever. And it's absolutely true. Don't complain that I didn't respond to x-y-z when you never cared to share it with me in the first place. Same goes for me, I can't get mad at you for not responding to whatever fly was up my butt, when I didn't have the wherewithal to even tell you about it.

Exactly. When one partner withholds information, he or she is entirely responsible for the repercussions. I have no patience with people who act in that manner.

BigDaddy - that's not exclusively a guy thing! I CANNOT multi-task. My brain just won't do it. If I'm reading at the computer (news article, email, etc) and my husband or son walks in the room and just starts talking, it takes a few seconds for it to register with me that someone's talking to me. So I have to force myself to stop paying attention to whatever I was reading, refocus, look away from it, and say "Sorry, what?" to the person who's talking to me. And they have to start over again, which often draws sighs and eyerolls lol. Oh well!

Or I'll be watching TV and just "vegging" in the bedroom, and my brain is really in limbo mode. Hubby walks in, starts talking without even seeing if he's got my attention, and I'll sigh a little, mute the TV, and give him my attention, at which point he usually says "Sorry!" in this exasperated voice, like I'm being really dramatic or making him feel awful or something. Truth is, I can't watch TV and listen to him. I choose to give him my attention by muting the TV. It's not dramatic. I'm happy to talk to him instead of watching TV. But he sees he's interrupted something that I'm doing, and I guess he gets a little defensive lol. Not my problem! I'm here, I'm listening, talk or don't talk

I love the invention of DVR. My husband has often started talking just at the last moment of a show - mainly a show in which he has no interest but I do. So the final moment of Law & Order when the verdict is about to be given ... "so, honey, what do you think about having chicken for dinner ..." Seriously? What do you think about me asking you questions about dinner during the Super Bowl during some important moment, which I don't know what that would be because I don't watch football, but you get the point.

DVR solves that problem to a greater extent, but we have also learned consideration. There really isn't much that can't wait until a commercial break.

 

[ValleyGal]

I would like to add to IDay's assertions about facial cues, etc. Part of this social intelligence as well as Gottman's "attunement" is about reading microexpressions and responding appropriately. And sometimes the appropriate response is to respect your partner's need for mental and emotional space. Sometimes not talking can be good for a marriage. People seem to think that there has to be this constant verbal communication of everything, but that is simply not true.

I have gone through periods where there was something bothering me in my spirit. I tend to grow quiet during those times, and if IDay were to try to drag something out of me that I can't even put my finger on, I would start to resent him for it. I need him to let me figure it out before I can talk about it. So when I start to go silent, he can read those social cues - Gottman's "attunement" - and give me space. He knows I'll talk when I'm ready.

Not everything needs to be talked about.

 

[Inkachu]

Exactly. When one partner withholds information, he or she is entirely responsible for the repercussions. I have no patience with people who act in that manner.

I love the invention of DVR. My husband has often started talking just at the last moment of a show - mainly a show in which he has no interest but I do. So the final moment of Law & Order when the verdict is about to be given ... "so, honey, what do you think about having chicken for dinner ..." Seriously? What do you think about me asking you questions about dinner during the Super Bowl during some important moment, which I don't know what that would be because I don't watch football, but you get the point.

DVR solves that problem to a greater extent, but we have also learned consideration. There really isn't much that can't wait until a commercial break.

Oh, it would be a lot worse if we actually had cable. We have all our shows and movies stored on our computers, so when I say "mute" it's probably more likely to be "pause", but same principle