Headstrong 4 yr. old

[kev4heels]

First time poster here. My wife and I have two children...one 7 yr. old boy, and
a 4 yr. old girl. My 4 yr. old girl is a handfull and has us at our whit's end on how to discipline her. She has a heart of gold and loving spirit, but she is very headstrong and selfish. She seems to think that she is the center of every event, act, or even conversation. When someone else tries to talk, she gets upset and runs out the room crying...looking for someone to come and console her. She will ask the same question over and over and over again, until you finally answer her. I hate to ignore her sometimes, but she is constantly talking, and sometimes I can't even think straight.
We want to spend quality time with her, but by 7:00AM, after she has already asked for breakfast 7 times and had 2 temper tantrums, we just don't really want to be around her. We love her so much, but we just don't know how to react to her...or discipline her. We try to divide our time evenly between my son and my daughter, but she never seems satisfied and pulls the crying routine anytime he gets something she doesn't. I could go on and on b/c we are REALLY frustrated. Any help out there to deal with a stubborn/selfish 4 yr. old?

Thanks

 

[Katydid]

Well, that depends on your parenting philosophy. Are you pro or anti spanking. Do you use time-outs or what. Different methods require different things. Since I am pro-spanking, I will give you that first. Although, I do have ideas that are non-spanking, the spanking method is very effective.


OK when she interrupts, kindly tell her, "Honey, when you say excuse me, then I will speak to you". Continue the conversation as if she didn't interrupt. When she interrupts again, kindly say to her, "honey, if you don't say excuse me, you will get a spanking, and I won't listen to you." When she interrupts again, or throws a fit, do not get upset, just give her a couple swats on her bottom and send her to her room. This is NOT a quick fix. You have trained her to cry and fuss to get her way, even if you have only given in a couple times. She needs to see this for a while with 100% consistency, or she will ALWAYS try again, in the hopes that "this time it will work".


If she runs out of the room crying, ignore her. Plain and simple, don't yell, don't console, don't even react. If she starts screaming and escalating, then calmly tell her that this is not acceptable and that she needs to stop or she will get a swat. Then follow through. Afterwards, tell her that if she doesn't listen the first time, you will give her a swat. DO NOT back off if she stops when you move towards her to give her a swat, otherwise you are training her that she doesn't REALLY need to stop until you get up.

After she asks for breakfast once, set a timer and tell her that when it dings, you will make her breakfast. If she asks again, instead of getting something yummy for breakfast, she will get ______(grits, oatmeal, anything that she isn't thrilled about getting). IF she waits for the timer before coming in for breakfast, then she will get_____(lucky charms, fruit loops, something really yummy).

When she starts to whine because brother got something that she didn't, don't get her anything. Tell her that you WILL NOT give her anything ANYTIME she whines. End of discussion. WHINING IS NEVER REWARDED. Otherwise it only gets worse.

Here is the key, you MUST be 100% consistent. Any inconsistency leaves the door open for the possibility that she MAY get away with it the next time.

If you don't believe in spankings, then replace then with time out or one of my favorites, THE CHAIR.

The CHAIR, is more uncomfortable than a time out, but still requires NO PHYSICAL FORCE.

Try this yourself and see how effective it would work for you....

Put your back flat against the wall, legs at a 90% angle like you are sitting in a chair, arms either straight out or for your daughter resting on her hips or thighs. Have her sit there for 30 seconds to a minute, is all it would take.

We also do Nose on the wall....

Have her stand next to the wall, place a circle on the wall at the level of her nose, when you place her "nose on the wall" she is actually back a few inches from the wall on her tipy toes with her nose in that circle.



Some people think these are bad to do as well, though they build up a child's strength, which I think is good. For instance, my son used to only be able to do 30 seconds in THE CHAIR, but now he can go for a good 3 or 4 minutes. Ask him though, and he will tell you he prefers a spanking.

 

[I'ddie4him]

I have a 3 y/o boy that really tries my wifes and my patience too. I have gotten to the point that when I ask him to pick up his toys and clean up before bed, He sometimes refuses. So, Mean daddy that I am takes the toys that are on the floor and puts them in a garbage bag and hides them. This teaches him that there are consequences to not picking thngs up.
As for the temper tantrums, I am at the point that I try to ignore them and let him cry himself out. Somedays it works, Somedays it doesn't.
This is a tough one cause I have a 14 y/o daughter that behaved for the most part. The only problem I had was keeping her in clothes and away from the multitude of animals we had. Let me think on this for a bit longer and see what else I can come up with.
Katydid has some good ideas for consequences.

 

[Hisrosebud]

kev4heels,

I am curious, was she an early talker? Is she brighter than most children? Do you have anyone in your family with semantic pragmatic speech disorders? autism? Aspergers?

I am asking because my 5 year old son is being tested for mild autism. I joined a chat support group. What you are discribing is what most parents of aspergers children do. They don't understand the nuances of communication; the social part (my turn, your turn). They are often very intelligent and early talkers.

Just curious.
she could also just be a stong 4 year old.
The trick as a parent is to curb the rebellious part of the will without breaking her spirit.
Jane

 

[Hisrosebud]

P.s.
especially the over and over again questions and not being able to tolerate anyone else talking; the constant talking and the temper tantrums-- these are soooo common in aspergers kids.

 

[Katydid]

P.s.
especially the over and over again questions and not being able to tolerate anyone else talking; the constant talking and the temper tantrums-- these are soooo common in aspergers kids.

The reason I didn't consider AS is because he said that she continues UNTIL he answers. With AS they continue even if you do give them an answer, or at least from my experience (my son has mild AS).

 

[Addicted2~Jesus]

Katydid has it right on target for the way we'd handle thins round here. Since this is an issue an as massive as it seems to be I don't think you believe in spankin an that's fine I won't tell anyone other wise. Do exactly what Katydid said though....

be 100% consitant. 99.9% won't do because a child will of course push that .01% on the hopes they'll git away with whatever it was.

Tellin us how you parent would offer more advice from folks, you don't need spankers to try an answer your question when you don't believe in that sorta thin, so you need non-spankers or grace based discipline etc, hollar back an let us know.

Btw welcome to CF.

 

[kev4heels]

Thanks for the responses everyone...I do believe in spanking, I just don't want to spank
her for crying or talking out of turn. I feel like I would be spanking her every 10 minutes.
I don't think she is an "asperger", but moreso just a very strong-willed child. Like one of the posters said, I want to curb her behavior without quinching her spirit. We are going to try and be as consistent as possible and see if things improve. I feel like we are pretty consistent now...she's always been this way, not just lately. We'll see...

 

[~Mrs. A2J~]

I do believe in spanking, I just don't want to spank
her for crying or talking out of turn. I feel like I would be spanking her every 10 minutes.

You might be spanking her every 10 minutes to start with but once she realizes that she will get a spank for that type of behavior she will stop doing it and then you won't need to spank her. Whatever discipline method you use you will need to do a lot of until she realizes what the consequences are.

 

[I'ddie4him]

I do believe in spanking, I just don't want to spank
her for crying or talking out of turn. I feel like I would be spanking her every 10 minutes.
I don't think she is an "asperger", but moreso just a very strong-willed child.

I believe in spanking too, I just use it as a last alternative. My son is a very strong willed and headstrong personality like I am. Thats why he and I have at least one battle of the wills everyday. Boy, They wear me out. whew.
My dad just told me a week ago that I finally got one just like me. All I could do was ask him how he did it with 6 of us growing up. His answer, I DON'T KNOW !!
Kids will try to test you in every way they can. Consistency is the key.

 

[erin74]

Another option for the speaking out of turn thing - like what Katydid said about having to say excuse me. We are trying to teach our son to come and hold our hand when we are talking to someone so that we know that he wants to say someting. then when we get a break in the conversation we can let him have his turn. Friends of ours do this with their kids and it has worked well for them.

For tantrums we do a settle down time out. He has to sit on his bed until he can settle down completely. Not allowed out of his room until he has stopped crying. He hates this cause he likes to be part of things. Some days he seems to spend more time on his bed than anywhere else, but usually a bad day is followed by a better one.

Welcome to CF by the way

Erin

 

[Kiwi]

Hey, you are describing my 4 year old daughter!!! She is exactly the same, the whole day it's 'I want', (I want my breakfast, I want a drink etc etc). To which I usually reply 'wait', 'be patient', or 'no'. She is a prolific talker and sounds like a walking dictionary (my friends in high school used to call me that), and has a crying fit at the slightest thing (like if her favourite tv character doesn't get the 'present for the day'). I find if I spend a good amount of time with her where she has my sole attention (like playing a card game or reading a book while baby sister is sleeping) then she is quite good the rest of the day, also she is better if I have taken her outside during the day (to the park or beach). Since she has been going to preschool she has got better as well.

 

[Jenna]

Hey! Why are you guys talking about my daughter?! *laughs*

I, too, have a 4 year old daughter with a heart of gold, who is an attention seeker and melodramatic. I have been having success with her though, so I'll share with you what we do, just for ideas.

First, I am consistent with her. She has to know the rules, forward and back. When I am talking with someone, I will excuse myself one time to talk with her and address her concerns. This way, she knows that she is still important, and that I am not ignoring her. However, I will not talk to her if she pushes in on my conversation. She has to say "excuse me", and wait for me to finish my thought. If she doesn't do this, and keeps trying to bud in, then she stands in the corner for a minute.

The "I wants" are cured simply by not giving. She knows that no matter how many times she asks, I will not get her what she desires. She can ask me one time, nicely, and accept my answer. If she pesters me, she gets nothing. If she pushes after I ask her to stop talking about it, then she gets a suitable punishement (usually corner time).

The melodrama just drives me nuts. She can be such an overly emotional girl. Whenever she hears something that she doesn't like, she'll start crying and run off to her bedroom. I had to put a stop to that because she was turning into a real brat. So, as soon as she takes to flight, I make her come back into the room and sit near me, with her hands folded in her lap (keeps her from curling up in a ball or hiding under the table). She knows that I won't tollerate the theatrics, and it gives me time to talk to her about what upset her, and to make my stand when she challenges me. I can excuse her from a room, and she can make puddles on her pillow if she wants. But, I will not allow her to run off and scream and cry.

 

[Princessperky]

I have a 3 year old and he was driving me crazy with similar things (though a boy so instead of crying he would do antics to get attention.)

We started two things with him, one the truck thing, was for constant instant rewards (and punishment) whie I do not wish to be rewarding my college kid for cleaning up after breakfast and staying in his chair, I have no truble rewarding a small child for that repetativly.

The newer thing is for dinner, We pick a topic and all stay on topic, with a prewritten list of questions to ask him, that way he is included in a large part, and he learns to come up with questions on his own (I have no idea how to teach him to come up with interesting points to join in, but the questions I can model and he easily picks up.)

Link to truck thing:

http://home.earthlink.net/~guin_dt_sales/id1.html

Link to conversation thing:
http://home.earthlink.net/~guin_dt_sales/id45.html