Headcovering

Floatingaxe · Jun 9, 2008

Cute doily.

DarkNLovely · Jun 9, 2008

Criada said:
Well, I wasn't raised that way . In fact, my mother thinks that I'm mad... tho that's not entirely due to headcoverings.
Witnessing can be scary if you make a big thing of it and put yourself under pressure.... but if you just think of it as talking about someone you love.... it's not so daunting!
And, as Francis of Assisi said "Witness at all times. If necessary use words"
Your life is a witness, sis.... and people will see that and ask questions

Thanks Criada!

I love that Francis of Assisi quote. Growing up, I always felt lots of pressure to witness and when I thought I was, I really hurt people as I thought it was the get-into-their-face-and-into-their-business type deal. So It's always been an issue for me. But what you said makes so much sense here and I will definatly be reflecing on it!

DarkNLovely · Jun 9, 2008

LovebirdsFlying said:
@DarkNLovely:
This is what the neighbor I mentioned in my previous post wore. If I remember correctly, the family was Mennonite, and I found this at a Mennonite site.

Oh, aren't they just ADORABLE?!?!? My mama has some of these and they now sell them at dollar stores! Just precious! Did you get the see the French Hood? It's lovely! I'll see if I can find a pic. Hey! I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if it's been addressed, but at what age do you think a woman should start to wear one? I wear since I can remember, but for some it's actually like a rite of passage.

edit: French Hoods!

This is the back of one a doll. The majority drape in the back but some are just the thick headband part.

Loves'em!

http://images.ask.com/fr?q=french+h...page%3D4%26o%3D0%26l%3Ddir%26pstart%3D24&qt=0

Criada · Jun 9, 2008

My fourteen year old began to wear one in church meetings about a year ago... no-one told her to do so, but she decided it was right.
My 9 year old sometimes wants to wear one of my headscarves, but I think that is more 'dressing up' than conviction!

LovebirdsFlying · Jun 9, 2008

I hadn't thought about age, since I've not been fully convicted of it yet and wasn't raised that way. It's only a personal issue with me, not a matter of doctrine until I've made further study on it. I go to a Southern Baptist church where other women don't cover, and the issue has not been addressed.

As a guess, though, since it seems to be a rite of passage, I might be inclined to say the onset of menstruation. When a girl physically becomes a woman, let her spiritually be one also, though not yet legally.

And those French hoods are adorable.

synger · Jun 12, 2008

This is a perennial discussion on the forum. It's a fascinating subject, and one that I am quite interested in. WHile I do not cover, I have prayerfully considered it on a number of occasions.

If you are interested in reading more threads about this subject, these are the ones that have been tagged with the topic. Note that some of them are fairly old threads. But they come from all over the Christian spectrum.

synger · Jun 12, 2008

Izdaari said:
Originally Posted by desmalia

And if one day your husband came to you after studying the subject deeply, and told you that he strongly believed it is dishonouring to God for women to go to church without a head covering, what would you do? If he asked you to wear it, would you?

Click to expand...

I'm not married, but I wouldn't marry anyone who felt that way.

I think I'd have to talk it over with him a lot, and I would hope that he had included me in the "studying the subject deeply" thing. Since to me it is adiaphora (things that are neither commanded nor forbidden in Scripture), I would probably go along with his wishes. It wouldn't hurt anything, and it's not contrary to Scripture.

I guess I see it as somewhat similar to another, more common, issue... that of surnames. I hoped to keep my maiden name when I married. It was a history thing (it's a rare surname and I'm proud of my heritage), but when I seriously looked at it, I had to admit it was also an independence thing. When Hunter and I planned to marry, we talked a lot about it. He didn't care one way or the other. In fact, we talked about his taking my surname, or us combining them somehow, and other options.

If he had just insisted that I take his name, and pull out the male authority - head of household card, I probably would have gotten all rebellious and stubborn and insisted on my right to keep my maiden name. Even if I did change it, I would resent being "forced" to do so. However, if he had discussed it with me, given me reasons why he thought it was a good idea to take his name (including the male headship issue), and respectfully asked me to change my name, I probably would have done so without resentment.

I think in issues like this, it is very important to include one another in the decision-making process. Even if he is the one who makes the final decision about it, he needs my input and I need time to process and buy into the idea. But ultimately, he is in authority over me, and if he asked me to cover, I would. (keep in mind that this is how I feel after almost 18 years as his wife. If he'd asked me in the first five years of marriage, it might have been a longer struggle.... )

DarkNLovely · Jun 12, 2008

LovebirdsFlying said:
I hadn't thought about age, since I've not been fully convicted of it yet and wasn't raised that way. It's only a personal issue with me, not a matter of doctrine until I've made further study on it. I go to a Southern Baptist church where other women don't cover, and the issue has not been addressed.

As a guess, though, since it seems to be a rite of passage, I might be inclined to say the onset of menstruation. When a girl physically becomes a woman, let her spiritually be one also, though not yet legally.

And those French hoods are adorable.

That's so interesting. Yes I think that would be a good idea. Or maybe when they get Baptized perhaps.

I love them! I have to get myself a pattern and make one!

DarkNLovely · Jun 12, 2008

Oh yeah! I meant to ask! Have any of you heard about The Hijab Challenge on Youtube? A Muslimah challenged non Muslimahs to wear one to see what it's like and it got lot's of positive responses! I think all Christian women should do the same. My only thing is that, while I love Muslimah style, I think a Christian womans veil should be more distinctive. Just me!

Floatingaxe · Jun 13, 2008

Do you women really hear yourselves? You are talking with glee about placing yourself and your daughters into religious bondage.

It's not pretty, nor is it lovely.

LovebirdsFlying · Jun 13, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
Do you women really hear yourselves? You are talking with glee about placing yourself and your daughters into religious bondage.

It's not pretty, nor is it lovely.

I'm a servant of Christ, and I love it.

Floatingaxe · Jun 13, 2008

...and how helpful is it in bringing others to Christ? Religious people might be converted to churchgoing, but how many people find freedom in Christ when women are catering to pious whims?

kasprinkle · Jun 13, 2008

Believe me, I do not want to wear Muslim garb. Don't want to identify in ANY way with a false religion!

LovebirdsFlying · Jun 13, 2008

What leads people to Christ, I think is showing how happy I am to be His servant. I have something that brings me joy. If people see the joy and want to know what brings it, I am pleased to tell them.

I don't preach head covering for any and all women; it is not my place to. I feel convicted of it, in one form at least, myself personally. I don't consider it religious bondage. Not if it's done by choice. But I don't want to get into a fight about the issue. I am a guest in the Fundamentalist forum and as such I cannot debate, even if it is something on which I side with them.

desmalia · Jun 13, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
Do you women really hear yourselves? You are talking with glee about placing yourself and your daughters into religious bondage.

It's not pretty, nor is it lovely.

I am a bond servant of Christ. As such I believe in His word, including the wife's submission to the husband. This is expressed a little differently from culture to culture, but the submission is still good and right and commanded. And yes, it does give me joy. I don't cover, and my husband doesn't want me to. One day he may change his mind. If he does, I will gladly submit. Glorifying God matters more than exercising our supposed "right" to certain comforts. And I have no problems letting people know that following Christ comes at a price. It is not my job to sugar-coat the Gospel so that people will be convinced of Christ. I simply live and share the Gospel as it is, and trust God to change the heart.

PS, Synger, great points about changing your name. DH and I went through a similar process as I had always assumed I would keep my maiden name if I got married. I took his name and I'm glad I did in the end. It's not cut and dry issue for every couple. But you know, maybe a year after we married he realized all the work it took to change my name (including exchanging a simple one for a complicated one that no one can pronounce or spell properly, lol), and he told me how deeply moved he was that I was so willing to go through all of that for him. That alone made it more than worth it. I honoured him. Not such a bad way to start a marriage.

DarkNLovely · Jun 13, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
...and how helpful is it in bringing others to Christ? Religious people might be converted to churchgoing, but how many people find freedom in Christ when women are catering to pious whims?

Hello FA!

For me, it is definatly not bondage. I have done it all my life so I have really never known anything else. Also, a Christian woman does not have to cover all the time unless she wants to. And do you have any idea how many women who have converted to Islam have done so because they like wear Hijab. I was just listeng to Muslims the other day talk about how they were discouraged at many born Muslimahs are not Hijabi but all the converted women they know are! So I highly doubt it would be as intrumental as you may think in turning people away. And like our dear Criada said, it could be a great way to witness!

Ciao!

Floatingaxe · Jun 13, 2008

It is not a great way to witness. Free western women are not interested in binding up their heads. Comparing it to women who convert to Islam because they like the headdress is silliness. If the desire for strange clothing habits is driving women to Islam, then they are in even more dire straits than I thought. No, men and women are converting to Islam because they are being duped and moving into bondage, filling up a void with another void.

Jesus offers us freedom. People see our freedom in worshiping the King in love and adoration and they want that too. It is not what we wear but Who we look like that draws them.

Tradition born of religiosity is not of God.

DarkNLovely · Jun 14, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
It is not a great way to witness. Free western women are not interested in binding up their heads. Comparing it to women who convert to Islam because they like the headdress is silliness. If the desire for strange clothing habits is driving women to Islam, then they are in even more dire straits than I thought. No, men and women are converting to Islam because they are being duped and moving into bondage, filling up a void with another void.

Jesus offers us freedom. People see our freedom in worshiping the King in love and adoration and they want that too. It is not what we wear but Who we look like that draws them.

Tradition born of religiosity is not of God.

Oh it is silly! But my point was that many Western women may actually not be as turned off as we take for granted but not that converting for that reason is by any means justifiable.

No, but tradition born of Scripture does!

If you really belive that Western Christian women really are as free as you say, then why are we not free, according to you, to worship in this way if we please?

Floatingaxe · Jun 14, 2008

We are not free if we are allowing the ancient customs influence our free worship today. That is useless baggage and piousness.

Women out there on the nations' streets (not talking about only street people here) are not looking for religion or religiosity. Covering sends the message to a visitor looking for what Jesus offers that they are somewhat less without a covering. You heap burdens on them they are not required to bear in Christ.

Jesus hated tradition. So should you. It doesn't win souls, and it doesn't align itself to what Jesus gives us...freedom in worship!

We are to dance with abandon before the Lord. Can't do that with a lace doily that could fly off into a heap.

Criada · Jun 14, 2008

FA, you have on many occasions told me how important it is to obey the word of God.
May I ask how you interpret 1Corinthians 11? Particularly verse 16.. which in the past I have been brought back to again and again when arguing exactly what you are arguing here.

1Corinthians 11:16
If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.

I don't want to argue. and I am not a member of this forum.. so please forgive me if I am outside of the rule... I am just interested to understand how someone whose commitment to the word of God I have always admired manages to explain this. Because, believe me, I have tried to do so!

Headcovering

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Dark am I, yet lovely.....Song of Songs 1:5

Dark am I, yet lovely.....Song of Songs 1:5

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My husband drew this cartoon of me.

Confessional Liturgical Lutheran

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Dark am I, yet lovely.....Song of Songs 1:5

Dark am I, yet lovely.....Song of Songs 1:5

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My husband drew this cartoon of me.

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My husband drew this cartoon of me.

sounds like somebody's got a case of the mondays

Dark am I, yet lovely.....Song of Songs 1:5

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Dark am I, yet lovely.....Song of Songs 1:5

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