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Having trouble letting go of worldly "tastes" when it comes to entertainment.

Jamdoc

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So while I believe Jesus, and I love Jesus, I find a lot of the things that are "connected" to Jesus in Church traditions and so on to be.. bland, unenjoyable, just outright dull.
I enjoy the bible, but reading other Christian books.. doesn't catch me, I still have a taste for Fantasy and Sci Fi when it comes to books and movies. "Escapism" in general is a particular stronghold. I don't like this broken world and want to be anywhere but where I am, but I do enjoy fantastical other places created by this world.

and when I tried to get rid of worldly music, admittedly some of the stuff I enjoy is very much not Christian (I mean like, Death Metal of all things- I like the intensity of it, and I think it's probably best that I never bother looking up the lyrics and best that I don't understand the vocals and treat them just as another instrument, but I know I probably just shouldn't listen to it at all), it just feels like I can't enjoy music at all, because I find praise and worship music.... "like the soundtrack to a coma" There's just no "drive" to it. I try to compromise with purely instrumental music sometimes but.. I know that's not cutting it.

Is ultimately it just part of bearing my own cross that I just find no satisfaction or enjoyment in anything I'm allowed to do?

I mean I'm not literally self flagellating but that's what it feels like to try and let go of things I enjoy
 

2PhiloVoid

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... y'know, if in order to be a 'good Christian' I have to stop listening to Tom Petty, I'm going to have a tough go of things in the future apparently. (And yes, I have a taste, too, for various forms of Heavy Metal, but that's a digression).

I'd say, don't beat yourself up over this stuff. I have similar predilections to you, but I try to think of it as an opportunity to separate the dross from the gold where secular media is concerned. Some stuff is definitely shot through and through with sin; but other stuff has some redeeming qualities. Maybe just try to decide to remove what is definitely dross from other secular media that still have redeeming qualities within them.

Just a suggestion.
 
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Jamdoc

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Oh I absolutely dread the prospect of actually looking up the lyrics to some of the stuff I listen to I *know* the content is well, outright evil in some cases, as I know that mythology (IE "other gods") and the occult are themes of heavy metal genres, and sometimes it's just... "a horror movie in musical format" which again, is still depicting sin. Like I know the content is through and through something unbecoming of a saint.
... but I like the instrumentation, and when it's "cookie monster vocals" I can't tell what they're saying so I just leave it at that.. but.. it's at the very least a stumbling block to others who know that about me, to connect with these things if not outright sin.

Basically I know thematically and subject matter it's all "dross" and so I'd need to toss all of it, and then, I just get left with.. "wow so I guess I don't like how any of this sounds, it's so milquetoast, I guess I'll give up music entirely"
 
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2PhiloVoid

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What's an example or two of what you've found to be milquetoast?
 
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Jamdoc

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What's an example or two of what you've found to be milquetoast?
literally any and all hymns, and I couldn't tell you any examples of contemporary Christian music because any time I've heard it it's been so un-memorable that I just don't take note of what the song is or who does it "stuff you hear at church" is all it registers as.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I understand what you're saying. Although I think my own palette maybe encompasses a wider range of genres in music, I've definitely heard more than my share of examples of CCC, along with various attempts by our fellow Christians to produce movie/t.v. show content, that I honestly can say make me sigh with instant exhaustion and a very hearty eye roll.

Still, I tend to find a number of Christians heavy metal and rock bands that I enjoy, along with my many nuanced selections of secular music.

Hang in there. I don't think music and movies necessarily have to be the "big concern" in the Christian life. It's probably enough to be able to just get rid of the influence and presence of all of the explicitly immoral media that is increasingly permeating our world.
 
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Jamdoc

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Sure but it's a big chunk of Church (and easily the part I like least) and supposedly a huge portion of eternity.

Like I get that a lot of the stuff that I find appealing, is thematically garbage, just presented in an appealing package.
... but the package and delivery of that content I find more engaging than how good content is delivered.
It's like food. The really bad for you food tastes amazing, and the good for you food tastes awful.

and like what I'm talking about is a bit like saying "I'm gonna go on a diet I'm going to cut out junk food and fast food and eat healthy" and then finding as I try to do that.. I don't enjoy eating at all anymore, that I'm pinching my nose and choking it down because it's healthy even if unpalatable, so I'd just rather not eat at all.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Sure but it's a big chunk of Church (and easily the part I like least) and supposedly a huge portion of eternity.

I would lean more heavily on the supposedness of it all. The truth is, we don't know what music in eternity will be like. It's best not to use highly symbolic imagery like we find in the book of Revelation to set the Mise-en-scène for what any of us will actually be singing, or be singing along with, in our final place of existence with the Lord.

Until then, I'll sing Joy to the World in the church, and when I walk out of the church, I'll pop on another play of something like:


.... and that's me. And the Lord knows I'm going to do that.
 
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Richard T

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There are some really good Christian offerings in fiction books. "This Present Darkness" by Frank Peretti. Go back to the 1800s and you will find George McDonald and his various books such as "The Shepherd's Castle" McDonald was one of C.S. Lewis' influences. There are many more in this genre.

I will broaden your topic if I may to suggest that the music and books are just a symptom. For me it might be TV and internet news. Our hearts can sometimes be too worldly. We all need revived to a point, where prayer for instance is exciting. I mean what else can one do during the week that has eternal consequences for yourself and others? The same can be said for studying the word of God and doing other more fruitful Christian activities. I just pray that God rearranges all our lives to conform to Him and that through His power we are not subject to boredom but instead to finding and portraying a dynamic, powerful and loving God. God bless!
 
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Jamdoc

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If the subject is still fantasy and sci fi that just makes it.. escapism written by Christians which isn't changing much. In Tolkien in particular, it's still a fantasy world with other Gods even if the God is an allegory for the Creator of this world Isn't that still worldly and sinful?

I guess I should add that as a physically disabled person, without really a lot productive I can physically do a lot of my time is consumed in entertainment just passing time. I run out of things to talk about in prayer as my situation doesn't really change, so my prayer life seems woefully short because I don't know what to say. I've read the bible several times cover to cover and refer back on it a lot but basically found a point where, re-reading the same things over and over wasn't bringing anything new to the table, "I already know all this". I guess that also reinforces the desire for escapist passtimes, just a pure lack of satisfaction in the life I have and what I'm able to do myself.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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It was not hard to let go. Much of it makes me nauseous and headachy. 9 out of 10 times, if we watch something on the net, they lapse into a lesbo or gay affair, and we have to turn from it. Puke. We are watching less and less of this. pffff....
 
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Jamdoc

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It was not hard to let go. Much of it makes me nauseous and headachy. 9 out of 10 times, if we watch something on the net, they lapse into a lesbo or gay affair, and we have to turn from it. Puke. We are watching less and less of this. pffff....
Well, that stuff I can't stand for just the disgust factor too, I heard the last Star Wars show went gay and so I didn't bother to actually watch it.

It's just harder to not watch a Star Wars show where it's not blatant abomination on the surface but in the smaller details there's elements of eastern religion and mysticism sprinkled in. To be fair a lot of this stuff I feel a need to cut off is not due to it being explicitly sin, like there's no commandment to not listen to music with electric guitars in it.
But we're to separate ourselves from the world, and also to not have the appearance of evil, that's the big thing. the commandment it would violate is to not bear the Lord's name in vain. My understanding of that commandment makes it the most difficult of all moral laws to follow. Because to bear the Lord's name in vain, is to have other people know that you claim the name of Jesus Christ, but in their eyes you make Him look bad, or you do things that they think are sin, even if there is no specific commandment, the fact that you make the Lord look bad to unbelievers or can be seen as a stumbling block to other believers is taking the Lord's name in Vain.

Another one I struggle with, profanity. God doesn't have a list of words in English He commands against using, but both believers and unbelievers alike attach taboo to certain words used as profanity, and so it appears unbecoming for a saint to use them. Is God keeping a tally of all the times I use profanity in private after I cut my thumb on a piece of sharp glass? Not that I'm aware of. But family members who hear me do it may look at me vs my beliefs and find me a hypocrite, making it harder to witness to them (and family I have found are the hardest people to witness to, I can't convince any of my family of the truth of Jesus because my testimony is damaged by what they know of me) That's why Paul taught about watching your tongue, not because there's a list of magic words that condemn you, but because other people attach taboo to certain words and it's bad optics.

Let me be clear I believe I have liberty in a lot of these things, it's not a salvation issue for me, my salvation is in Jesus, not my own adherence to moral law, however in order for me to be a better disciple, a better witness, things have to go.

But .. ditching them and not replacing them with something else is the hard part, and I find the "replacements" really dull.
 
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CoreyD

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A scripture that helped me, as well as millions, who were once of this world, is Psalm 97:10.
First, once I developed a love for God, I wanted to do what pleased him, and not what hurt him, and so, I developed a hatred for the things that were bad, in his eyes.

Once I developed that hatred, it was easy to let go of all those things.
I felt a strong hatred for them to the point that I did not like to see persons loving them, and that even moved me to try to encourage them away from them.

Of course, without that love for God, and godly fear, letting go of these things, will not be easy, so there is a need to develop that love, and fear of God.
What helped me in that area, was reading God's word daily, and reflecting on what I read, which revealed the need for me to be, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the word - applying it.

James 1:22-25
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.​

I so much enjoyed trying to help others come to know and love God, that I could not see myself doing the very things that others were doing, and at the same time knowing that these things were wrong in God's eyes, and not letting the persons I shared the gospel with, know this.
I would feel like a hypocrite.

Romans 2:19-24
19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.​

This also greatly helped, because the more I shared the gospel, the more I realized I had to live in a way that showed I believed the gospel.
To claim that I believed the gospel, when I was not living my life in subjection to the gospel, would be fooling myself.

I don't regret my choice to give up the things of this world, because I realize that doing so sets us free as Jesus said (John 8:31, 32), and we are no longer slaves - slaves to sin, and of course, the Devil, who dangles the bait, to keep us in slavery to that sin.
Romans 6:1-7, 15-23
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.​
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.​
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.​
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

Knowing that I am in in relationship with God, and have his approval is the greatest feeling I have ever had, because I feel the love of God, and experience his blessings, which brings happiness... more happiness than anything this world can offer.
In fact, the things in this world brings more misery, when you sit and think about it... at least that is what my experience was, because you have a conscience that is not clear, and can't approach God with freedom and confidence - Ephesians 3:12; you feel like you wasted your money and your time... at least I do.

So, it felt like letting go was actually a protection for me. Not to mention, from the hidden traps that we do not see, which are in the music and movies we feed our minds with.
I really got to taste and see that the LORD is good, and have been blessed, or gained happiness for doing so. Psalm 34:8
 
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Richard T

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There is a genre of Christian fiction that consists of believable stories. The McDonald books really would inspire me when I am finished. He always was able to bring scripture and have characters that were faced with issues concerning their conduct in his somewhat realistic fiction. Michael Phillips and others are more contemporary of the same style, though many of these are centered on romance.
 
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Jamdoc

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eh, realistic fiction taking place on this world is just not interesting to me.
 
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Jamdoc

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One of the things that kinda hinders me is knowing that a lot of this stuff that has a bad reputation (IE "appearance of evil") is all image and an act.
IE heavy metal, people think it's all literal theistic Satanists practicing human sacrifice and cannibalism because of imagery bands use. In most cases, what it really all was, was an act. The goal of heavy metal originally was to be like a horror movie, but music, so they sought to make music and have an image that was "scary" the reason why early heavy metal has occult themes and violence and monsters is because horror movies have occult themes and violence and monsters. It's intended to be "scary", and it's intended to be "scary" to cause a viewer/listener to feel adrenaline. Much in the same way a roller coaster works, it's exciting because it imitates danger, while actually being safe. Most of the bands WILL be atheists/secular, but any "demonic" things are just to be "scary" and have shock value. The exception being the "Black Metal" Subgenre, which even the first inspirations of that were largely doing the "Satanism" as an act, but the second wave of it were actual theistic Satanists for awhile, burned a bunch of churches in Scandinavia, there were murders, suicides, etc. It's a genre I don't like, because #1 their music actually sounds really bad, and #2, I know that rather than just "an evil image as an act for shock value" these people are sometimes legitimately Satanists and legitimately messed up, I've heard about a few cases where I think the person was quite literally demonically possessed.

Which can kind of bring me to a point: As I know there are real Satanists in a particular group of musicians and avoid them, while knowing for many others "these are just fans of horror movies" and "it's an act for shock value", a brother, or an unbeliever who knows me might not know that "it's just an act" and take it at face value, so you look like a hypocrite and have created a stumbling block to them. To the roller coaster analogy, it's a little like feeling like you can't go on roller coasters anymore, even though you know it's not significantly dangerous, the danger is mostly an illusion (accidents can happen even with them having safety measures built into the rides), people who see you go on it don't know they have safety measures and the rides are generally not dangerous, and see you going on them as recklessly endangering yourself.

Which brings me to the point of "Christian Metal. I looked into it a bit but realized, it encounters the same problem. I might know that the band professes Christ, and if I were to look up the lyrics perhaps it'd be Christ Exalting and God Glorifying.... but it doesn't matter. It will *sound* like music that doesn't and so people will associate it with music that doesn't and in fact associate it with Satanists that burned down Churches and committed murders.
So it all fails the "appearance of evil" test.

So I think I can't enjoy music, music that actually has an exciting sound to me and doesn't bore me, without failing the "appearance of evil" test of discipleship.
 
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soldier of light

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I used to be a Metallica fan until I got severe psychosis and played their music. Now they give me the creeps
 
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Jamdoc

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I used to be a Metallica fan until I got severe psychosis and played their music. Now they give me the creeps
odd, out of the big 4 thrash bands they're the one that had the least issues with "Satanic Panic" in their reputation. Slayer was the one that got accused of it the most.
I only really found issues with heavy metal music where the lyrics were too intelligible without looking up and would prefer not to listen to songs where I knew the subject matter was something more specifically Anti-Christian or was directly against God. Probably the first "hard no" for me was Nine Inch Nails though that's not really heavy metal.
As odd as it may seem, Death Metal's vocal style made discerning lyrics almost impossible without looking up, and I just never bothered, so it was just fast, loud, intense, adrenaline pumping walls of sound that to me are exciting and make me want to air guitar or air drum along with it.

I almost feel like the only way to make it "bad" or particularly dangerous to me to ditch it, IS to investigate the lyrics, though that could be exposing myself to spiritual attack.
I mean it could be similar to when I could hear Metallica lyrics and discern "oh this song is just about having nightmares when sleeping as a kid, I can relate to that" or an Iron Maiden song "oh this is about fighter pilots during world war 2 fighting the Nazis, that's kinda patriotic and exciting", but it's also quite possible to find out a song does have overt Satanic themes and then it becomes much more dangerous.
 
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