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Have you preached Rightly Divided?

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TheScottsMen

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I'm wondering how many preachers we got out there? Have you ever done in preaching at your Church or another?:wave:

I'm packing up to leave in 4 hours to fly down to Arkansas (live in Minnesota) to do some advertising for our college and preach at a Church tomm evening and Sunday evening.

Topic: Kneeology ;)
 

@@Paul@@

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TheScottsMen said:
I'm wondering how many preachers we got out there? Have you ever done in preaching at your Church or another?:wave:

I'm packing up to leave in 4 hours to fly down to Arkansas (live in Minnesota) to do some advertising for our college and preach at a Church tomm evening and Sunday evening.

Topic: Kneeology ;)
OK TSM: what's Kneeology ??? :)
 
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@@Paul@@ said:
OK TSM: what's Kneeology ??? :)
LOL. Does that involve "kneepads":wave:J/K. I did actually find that subject on the internet, interesting.

[font='Arial', sans-serif]Conc: If Jesus, The Great Physician, were to walk into this building tonight and place His finger on the spiritual pulse of Calvary Baptist Church, would He say we were dead or alive? What if He were to do the same to you as an individual? What would He The bottom line is this: Our church will only grow in relation to God's ability to bless and work among us. As you've listened to this message, I trust that the Lord has pointed out areas where you need to make improvements in your own life. If so, I invite you to bring those needs to Jesus and let Him take care of them today. [/font]

[font='Arial', sans-serif] As you are strengthened and walk in full fellowship with the Father, your church is also strengthened. Whatever your needs are today, please bring them to Jesus and let Him take care of them for you. If we will respond to Him, walk with Him and honor Him, He will visit this church with His power and we will experience His best plan for this ministry! Will you do what the Lord want's you to do today?[/font]
 
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BT

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TheScottsMen said:
I'm wondering how many preachers we got out there? Have you ever done in preaching at your Church or another?:wave:

I'm packing up to leave in 4 hours to fly down to Arkansas (live in Minnesota) to do some advertising for our college and preach at a Church tomm evening and Sunday evening.

Topic: Kneeology ;)
I'm one. :wave:
 
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Iosias

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TheScottsMen said:
I'm wondering how many preachers we got out there? Have you ever done in preaching at your Church or another?:wave:

I'm packing up to leave in 4 hours to fly down to Arkansas (live in Minnesota) to do some advertising for our college and preach at a Church tomm evening and Sunday evening.

Topic: Kneeology ;)
I do not believe in having Pastors as they sin against the Holy Ghost. See http://www.christianforums.com/t1077294-pauline-dispensationalists-and-pastors.html
 
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TheScottsMen

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TheScottsMen said:
I'm packing up to leave in 4 hours to fly down to Arkansas .....and preach at a Church tomm evening and Sunday evening.

Topic: Kneeology ;)
Well I ended up changing my sermon this afternoon at 2 PM haha. Went great though!
 

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BT

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AV1611 said:
I do not believe in having Pastors as they sin against the Holy Ghost. See http://www.christianforums.com/t1077294-pauline-dispensationalists-and-pastors.html
I would be very careful with this kind of claim. It's ok to say that you do not believe in having Pastors. It is not ok to say that they sin against the Holy Ghost. Exhibit a little grace and say that "I believe they sin against the Holy Ghost". Otherwise you come dangerously close to crossing a line. The office of Pastor is certainly not a sin against the Holy Spirit. It is unfortunate claims like this that make the rest of us dispensationalists look bad. Highly regrettable.
 
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Iosias

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BT said:
I would be very careful with this kind of claim. It's ok to say that you do not believe in having Pastors. It is not ok to say that they sin against the Holy Ghost. Exhibit a little grace and say that "I believe they sin against the Holy Ghost". Otherwise you come dangerously close to crossing a line. The office of Pastor is certainly not a sin against the Holy Spirit. It is unfortunate claims like this that make the rest of us dispensationalists look bad. Highly regrettable.
I said that I believe they do and provided a link for you to read. The whole Brethren movement began with that as a core doctrine and it is written by the 'Founder of Dispensationalism' hence it is also a very honoured position.

I do not believe in having clergy and the reason is because they sin against the Holy Ghost...find out why!

It is a question of the dispensational standing of the Church in the world – a statement that that depends wholly on the power and presence of the Holy Ghost, and that the Notion of a Clergyman contradicts His title and power, on which the standing of the Church down here depends. It is the habitation of God through the Spirit. Scripture is clear, that if the Gentiles do not abide in God's goodness, they will be cut off like the Jews.

It equally predicts a falling away, which is not continuing in God's goodness. I believe these times are hasting greatly. I add, that there may be no mistake, that I have an absolute confidence in the faithfulness of the Lord Jesus, the great Head of the Church, that what He builds will endure and be translated to heaven, when God judges the corrupt and evil system – which He as certainly will do – which bears His name, and Christ Himself becomes in glory the blessed witness of His unchangeable faithfulness and love.The doctrine of the church as the house of God – Eph. 2, and 2 Tim. – became developed in my mind much later; and I add here, that I believe the confounding the Church, as man built it, as committed to his responsibility – 1 Cor. 3 – resulting in the great house, with Christ's building – though the former be God's building responsibly in the world – and attributing the privileges of the body to all that are in the house, is the origin of the corruption, which has defiled, and for which God will judge the guilty, professing body with His sorest judgment.

The statement which I make is this, that I believe the "Notion of a Clergyman" to be the sin against the Holy Ghost in this dispensation.

I am not talking of individuals wilfully committing it, but that the thing itself is such as regards this dispensation, and must result in its destruction. The substitution of something else for the power and presence of that holy, blessed, and blessing Spirit, [is the sin] by which this dispensation is characterised, and by which the unrenewedness of man, and the authority of man, holds the place which alone that blessed Spirit has power and title to fill, as that other Comforter which should abide for ever. If the "Notion of a Clergyman" has had the effect of the substitution of anything which is of man, and therefore subject to Satan, in the place and prerogative of that blessed Spirit exercising the vicarship of Christ in the world, it is clear, that however the providence of God may have overruled it, in the ignorance which He could wink at, it does, when stood upon and rested in against the presence and work of the Spirit, become direct sin against Him – pure, dreadful, and destructive evil – the very cause of destruction to the church.I must be observed here to say nothing whatever against offices in the Church of Christ, and the exercise of authority in them, whether episcopal or evangelical in character.

It were a vain and unnecessary work here to prove the recognition of that on which scripture is so plain.

But they are spoken of in scripture as gifts derived from on high: "He gave some apostles", Eph. 4: 11; so in 1 Corinthians 12, they are known only as gifts.

My objection to the "Notion of a Clergyman" is, that it substitutes something in the place of all these, which cannot be said to be of God at all, and is not found in scripture.
Article found here: http://www.newble.co.uk/writers/Darby/clergyman.html
 
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BT

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I've read it... and while it may have been relavent at the time of its writing, to us at this time in this dispensation -- it is mostly utter nonsense. I mean, do you even realize how old this writing is (rhetorical)? Do you understand the difference in the world between then and now?

AV, brother, you gotta catch up here. Look at these quotes

"But if clergymen have the exclusive privilege of preaching, teaching, and ministering communion, which they claim, and which is the very sense and meaning of their distinctive title, then must it be all evil. "

So AV do you actually think that "clergymen" have the exclusive privilege of anything? I think you ought to visit a few churches, see the deacons baptizing and handing out the crackers and juice. There is no exclusivity at all. There may have been when this piece was written but no longer. There is no degree required to pastor a church, there is no "approval of men" required. There is no prevention at all. Pastor is not an exclusive office beyond the calling of God.

And

"Who are the hindrances, the bars to the gospel – to truth there finding its way among the people? The clergy. Consult any missionary reports, or continental reports, or Jewish reports, or a Home Mission Society: and the clergy will be universally found to be the hindrances to the propagation of the truth "

This is utter nonsense in our day and age. Sure it was true at the time it was written, but to lump pastors in with these folks exhibits your absolute misunderstanding of the history involved here. The "clergymen" as they were in his day and the "pastors" of our day are different animals all together. You think that modern day pastors are hindrances to missions? That's foolishness. My church, on our Pastor's leading, supports over 80 missionary families across the world, only 3 of which came out of our own church, and we have a relatively small congregation. If it weren't for faithful pastors in this age there would be no mission work at all. I'm wondering if you even read this piece or not...?

Pastors' office is NOT a sin against the Holy Spirit. The idea is utter nonsense.
 
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Iosias

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BT said:
Pastors' office is NOT a sin against the Holy Spirit. The idea is utter nonsense.
At your church who decides on what to preach? Whe decides who to baptise? Who decides who can preach? Who decides who can join...who makes the major decisions? How are those decisions reached?
 
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BT

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AV1611 said:
At your church who decides on what to preach? Whe decides who to baptise? Who decides who can preach? Who decides who can join...who makes the major decisions? How are those decisions reached?
At your church who decides on what to preach?

The preacher decides on what to preach within the guidelines of our beliefs (constitution). He also discusses his topics with the deacons (sometimes). He is held accountable for anything that he says to the church body (which by vote can remove him).

Whe decides who to baptise?

The church decides who to baptise in our statement of faith. Only believers can be baptized (by immersion) on a confession of faith.

Who decides who can preach?

The pastor, associate pastor, deacons, membership all decide who can preach. If a member wants to bring a message he is more than welcome. No one in hindered in this regard. All of our Sunday School classes are taught by members, Wednesday night Bible studies are often presented by members.


Who decides who can join...who makes the major decisions? How are those decisions reached?

The church body decides who can join. It's a vote.

The church body makes the major decisions. It's a vote.

The church is an autonomous body.



I know what the author was talking about. His arguments were against the "clergymen" caste so to speak. Which does not exist in all churches in our age. There are still "government appointed" ministers in some countries, which is a practice that we would never support. There are some denominations that require a certain level of their own kind of education, which we would never support either. But to generalize in that way that pastors sin against the Holy Spirit, is based on a statement that is not applicable to what we know as the office of pastor in our days.

The pastor that we have now is a "Dr." the pastor that we had before him (who left to go on the mission field) never set a foot in a Bible College, the pastor before him (before my day) likewise. The pastor that we have now has been in the ministry for over 30 years. He started with 0 education and as he went along he gained it here and there. But it was totally his choice, it was not required, he was not looked down upon because he didn't have some degree. He simply wanted to get more education..

The position of pastor is a position of "servant leadership", the pastor is our servant, and our pastor in particular is a marvelous example of a servant spirit...
 
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Iosias

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BT said:
At your church who decides on what to preach?
The preacher decides on what to preach within the guidelines of our beliefs (constitution). He also discusses his topics with the deacons (sometimes). He is held accountable for anything that he says to the church body (which by vote can remove him).

Who decides who to baptise?
The church decides who to baptise in our statement of faith. Only believers can be baptized (by immersion) on a confession of faith.

Who decides who can preach?
The pastor, associate pastor, deacons, membership all decide who can preach. If a member wants to bring a message he is more than welcome. No one in hindered in this regard. All of our Sunday School classes are taught by members, Wednesday night Bible studies are often presented by members.

Who decides who can join...who makes the major decisions? How are those decisions reached?
The church body decides who can join. It's a vote.

The church body makes the major decisions. It's a vote.

The church is an autonomous body.
So the Holy Ghost is not let to lead then?

Ephesians 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

The church is not a democracy it is a theocracy with Christ as the head. Who employs your Pastor? the local church, but that constrains the Holy Ghost and thus sins against Him.
 
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BT

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AV1611 said:
So the Holy Ghost is not let to lead then?

Ephesians 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

The church is not a democracy it is a theocracy with Christ as the head. Who employs your Pastor? the local church, but that constrains the Holy Ghost and thus sins against Him.
LOL. You know just before I fell asleep last night I realized the loaded question that I had answered. Touche (though we both know that it is a game of semantics that you're playing now, afterall does The Holy Spirit pay the hydro bill? One may say no, the other would say yes because He directs a believer to be a responsible steward .... you can go around in circles). The Holy Spirit directs everything in the life of a believer...

To say that because our body of believers provides income for the pastor somehow constrains the Holy Spirit is a little silly. Mabey more than a little. You have quoted "some pastors" so what is a pastor? Did Paul not exhort the believers who provided for his earthly needs, didn't he say that he was a "labourer". Read the pastoral epistles....
 
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@@Paul@@

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AV1611 said:
The church is not a democracy it is a theocracy with Christ as the head. Who employs your Pastor? the local church, but that constrains the Holy Ghost and thus sins against Him.
Maybe the confusion here lies in what "sinning against the Holy Ghost" is? There is no "unforgivable" sin today. :)
 
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BT

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@@Paul@@ said:
Maybe the confusion here lies in what "sinning against the Holy Ghost" is? There is no "unforgivable" sin today. :)
the unforgivable sin was "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 12:31)

We (Christians) in our age can

grieve Him, quench Him

but not blaspheme Him (though there are some convincing arguments around this concept... re: apostates)
 
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Iosias

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@@Paul@@ said:
Maybe the confusion here lies in what "sinning against the Holy Ghost" is? There is no "unforgivable" sin today. :)
I am not arguing that it is the unforgivable sin (blasphemy against the Holy Ghost) but I am arguing that it is sinning against the Holy Ghost in that it contrains His work.
 
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