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That's just false. YEC's do not pick one verse over the other, nor do we think 24 is in any way "canceled out". God "created" man in ch.1, ch.2 says man was made "out of the ground". There's no reason to think there's anything contradictory about that, so there's no reason to claim we see anything contradictory when the same thing is said about animals.Unfortunately YECs seem to think verse 25 And God made the beasts of the earth,
somehow cancels out verse 24 And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures..."
But I will let you into a little secret. They are both true. YECs have to choose v25 over v24,
The reason some YECs question the salvation of TEs because their understanding of sin is worrisome. The Bible says that sin and death began with Adam, but according to TE death and evil were around for billions of years in the world God created "very good."
Faith can indeed "lift mountains".Originally Posted by archaeologist
so the answer is for all those who come after the disciples is---- faith
The reason some YECs question the salvation of TEs because their understanding of sin is worrisome. The Bible says that sin and death began with Adam, but according to TE death and evil were around for billions of years in the world God created "very good."
If Christ saves us from death in Adam but Adam's death is physical, should we expect not to die physically?
Because TE's understand when Paul speaks about "death" he is speaking of a spiritual death, just like he does in much of his letters: "for the wages of sin is death". He is not speaking of physical death but a spiritual death.
His inference hence is, Therefore there was a
law; forsin is not imputed where there is no law. Original sin is a want of
conformity to, and actual sin is a transgression of, the law of God:
therefore all were under some law. His proof of it is, Death reigned from
Adam to Moses, v. 14. It is certain that death could not have reigned if sin
had not set up the throne for him. This proves that sin was in the world
before the law, and original sin, for death reigned over those that had not
sinned any actual sin, that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's
transgression, never sinned in their own persons as Adam did which is
to be understood of infants, that were never guilty of actual sin, and yet
died, because Adam's sin was imputed to them. This reign of death seems
especially to refer to those violent and extraordinary judgments which
were long before Moses, as the deluge and the destruction of Sodom,
which involved infants. It is a great proof of original sin that little
children, who were never guilty of any actual transgression, are yet liable
to very terrible diseases, casualties, and deaths, which could by no means
be reconciled with the justice and righteousness of God if they were not
chargeable with guilt.
This argument is Pauls proof of the teaching in<450512>Romans 5:12 that all
men die because Adam sinned. It is true that all have sinned and that death
is the penalty of sin prescribed to Adam in Paradise and afterwards in the
Law given to Israel. But the universal reign of death long before Moses
cannot be an infliction of the penalty threatened to him. It must therefore be
an infliction on Adams children of the penalty laid upon him (<010319>Genesis
3:19) for his first transgression.
The above argument is not invalidated by the law written in the heart, by
which, as we read in <450214>Romans 2:14, 15, they who have not received the
Mosaic Law will be judged and punished. For this law belongs to the inner
and unseen world, and in that unseen world its penalty will be inflicted. The
punishment of bodily death belongs to the outer and visible world; and
therefore cannot be inflicted in fulfilment of a law written only within.
A similar argument may be drawn from the death of infants. Upon them,
though innocent of actual sin, the punishment of death is inflicted. This
proves that they come into the world sharing the punishment, and therefore
in effect the sin, of Adam. But it suited Paul better to use an argument
which keeps the Law before his readers. The case of infants confirms the
conclusion at which, by another path, Paul arrived.
Notice that to Paul death is essentially and always the penalty of sin. He
sees men die; and inquires for whose sin the penalty is inflicted. His view is
141confirmed by the fact that both in Paradise and at Sinai God threatened tomark of His anger.
punish sin by death, and thus set it apart from all natural processes as a
And death by sin Natural evil is evidently the effect of moral evil; if
man had never sinned, he had never suffered. Dust thou art, and unto dust
shalt thou return, was never spoken till after Adam had eaten the
forbidden fruit.
When I seek eternal life I do not seek it for my bones, or my body, or my sinful flesh, I seek it for my soul departed from these things.
I was speaking with a very charismatic brother about six months ago. We were speaking about the giftts of the spirit. He questioned my salvation -- ie, questioned it, not judged it. It never occurred to me to be offended. I question his clarity on some of the scripture about salvation. But, he was really trying to help me, and regardless of whether he was prudent in his theological approach, it just kind of struck me that it was an appropriate thing for him to do as a brother.
Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
If fear is not completely incompatible with salvation, there is room for legitimate questions.
That is not license to question whomever you wish whenever you wish. More often than not, it might be better to let the TEs question their own. Giving offense is also not incompatible with the Gospel, but that also isn't
license to be offensive.
Yes, the Muslims also await the return of Him, but to turn the World to the True relgion of Islam.I would be careful following this line of thinking...it ventures precariously close to Gnosticism.
We do, after all, wait for the resurrection of the flesh, and Christ, in the Incarnation, redeemed the physical as well as the spiritual.
Having said that, I think it's quite illegitimate for people to question the salvation of evolutionists for a very different reason - if someone is sincerely considering the issue of origins and the relation of science to Scripture, that's already a massive enough bugbear in itself, what with the recent press about evolution and atheism and all that
Compounding that with "I might go to hell?" stuff is only going to cloud the brain infinitely more. People thinking through these things need clear minds, not threats to their faith.
What does this have to do with anything?Yes, the Muslims also await the return of Him, but to turn the World to the True relgion of Islam.
We have a bet going on whether Muhammad's Christ or our Christ returns first. LOL
Well, I wasn't sure if others here knew of the Muslims belief of Christ returning also.What does this have to do with anything?
Well I have had verse 25 quoted at me often enough as if it contradicted what we are told in verse 24, that God commanded the earth to produce living creatures. That couldn't possibly mean the earth produced life. So they quote verse 25. Verse 24 and 25 describe both the earth producing life in all its different species, and it tells us it was at God's command and that this was God's work. YECs cannot handle the idea that life may have been produced by the earth.That's just false. YEC's do not pick one verse over the other, nor do we think 24 is in any way "canceled out".
I understand you do not have a difficulty between Gen 1:25 and Gen 2. But it is Gen 1:24 and 1:25 that YECs struggle with.God "created" man in ch.1, ch.2 says man was made "out of the ground". There's no reason to think there's anything contradictory about that, so there's no reason to claim we see anything contradictory when the same thing is said about animals.
Oddly enough, there have are plenty of people who say that that speaking in tongues is of the devil and a deception meant to lead people astray too. So not so different after all.not at all. the two cases are vastly different as busterdog's example involves something known to be of God--the gifts of the Spirit--whereas, evolution is not of God and is a deception meant to lead people astray
stop trying to justify your beliefs using apples when you have a cart load of oranges.
I would be careful following this line of thinking...it ventures precariously close to Gnosticism.
We do, after all, wait for the resurrection of the flesh, and Christ, in the Incarnation, redeemed the physical as well as the spiritual.
as you attain the goal of (your) faith, the salvation of your souls.
There are both heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the brightness of the heavenly is one kind and that of the earthly another.
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
i would disagree. from mathew henry:
from Beet's commentary:
from adam clarke:
you notice that God's curse brought in physical death after adam had sinned. which some people here seemtoignore so they can justify their thinking.
"Soul" is not equivalent to "spiritual body."
The hope of Christians is the resurrection of the dead - of the flesh as well as the spirit.
This I declare, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life
"When I seek eternal life I do not seek it for my bones, or my body, or my sinful flesh, I seek it for my soul departed from these things."
That may be a popular understanding, but none the less it is incorrect."Soul" is not equivalent to "spiritual body."
The hope of Christians is the resurrection of the dead - of the flesh as well as the spirit.
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