Have you always lived?

[McCravey]

I was thinking the other day about the meaning of eternal life. If we have eternal life then is it possible that that life will not only sustain us forever but that we have also existed for ever?

Does it have anything to do with our concept of time?

 

[ydouxist]

I believe God made time for us.

I can understand always will be.

But I can't fathom always has been.

 

[Dad Ernie]

I was thinking the other day about the meaning of eternal life. If we have eternal life then is it possible that that life will not only sustain us forever but that we have also existed for ever?

Does it have anything to do with our concept of time?

Jesus was likened to Melchizedek, without beginning or end:

Heb 7:1-3 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Now there is something of a mystery about Melchisedec in this context, but there are many good expositors that have provided insights and understanding into how these conclusions referred to him. But the important part is HOW they applied to Jesus.

In contrast to this we see:

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Eccl 3:19-21 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

So man had a beginning and as man was created from the dust, so shall man go. Man is NOT a natural eternal being, nor was his soul from everlasting. But once born, it appears that man's soul/spirit is destined for either eternal life with God or eternal destruction in the Lake of Fire.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[jbarcher]

A point I'd like to raise...philosophically, we don't have eternal life, but everlasting life.

Eternity is an actual infinite, meaning no beginning or end. The Trinity is the only eternal Thing to exist. Our souls are not eternal, since they were created.

This is easily reconcilable with "eternal life" passages, to mean that eternal life is a figurative thing.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

[drdeancrosby]

The problem with the concept is that then it's necessary to figure out where we were,what we were doing and in what form we were in before we were born.Hindu believers have an answer to these questions.They usually pick a cow walking the streets of downtown Bombay India.If you believe we existed before human birth,it's going to quickly lead you to the satanic doctrine of reincarnation.This is the belief that if we walk around as a cow long enough,we'll improve our behavior (not blocking traffic)so eventually we'll make it into heaven through our own animal-like efforts.Jesus' teaching on the other hand,is that we don't make into heaven through our own efforts,but due to His mercy and love and forgiveness,qualities which Christians are supposed to show themselves.That would put a stop to the war in Iraq in a hurry!

 

[McCravey]

Great discussions!!!!

Really caused me to think!!

I would like to add the following to some of the comments above:

Paul was very explicit about what happened to us when Jesus went to the cross, he said the following:

 

[McCravey]

Great discussions!!!!

Really caused me to think!!

I would like to add the following to some of the comments above:

Paul was very explicit about what happened to us when Jesus went to the cross, he said the following:

1. We all died in Christ. We are already dead. ( I am assuming our old man died)
2. We are now alive--but only because the life of Christ is in us.

Can God's life (Christ's seed) be born--or is it just transfered into us...a life that has always been and will always be?

So back to the above verse considering Melchesidek--Without father or mother abideth a priest forever.

Also Christ was the lamb slain from before the foundation of the world---how was that possible?

 

[Breetai]

I just posted on a very similar topic not 10 minutes ago, so I will post here too.

Col 1:16-17
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

John 1:3-4
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

These verses are referring to Christ Jesus. We are all His creation.

Before anyone counters and says that only the Father is the creator, read John 1:1 and John 1:14:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

The Word is clearly Christ Jesus. Also, notice how the this verse states that He is the "only begotten of the Father"? Jesus had no spiritual "brothers and sisters", as some might believe.

1 Corinthians 15:47
The first man is of the earth.

This certainly implies that man did not exist before he was on the earth. To believe that man pre-existed in heaven is a direct condradiction of this verse.


God Bless


btw, Hi Dad Ernie. Haven't ran into you in a while... I'm glad that we're in agreement on this.

 

[Breetai]

Christ was the lamb slain from before the foundation of the world---how was that possible?

God is onmiscient(all-knowing; past, present and future). He had planned what would happen before He created the world. He planned to give man free will, and knew what would happen (sin) when man had free will. Because of this, He gave us a way to be redeamed from our sin. Through the Lamb who was slain from before the foundation of the world, we are justified before God.

 

[Michali]

I was thinking the other day about the meaning of eternal life. If we have eternal life then is it possible that that life will not only sustain us forever but that we have also existed for ever?

Does it have anything to do with our concept of time?

I believe that, if we are seperate from time (like God), then our life, simply, "is" and not "has been", "will be", or even "always is". In a realm beyond time, such terms have no meaning.

It is like the question, "What was before God?" This is an invalid question. God created time, so therefore, there is no "before". Everything was instant. Things do not lead up to eachother, they just equivilate.

At the very point that time began, we have all these events in simultaneous occurance: (Assuming we are also outside of time) God is=We are=Time is and then time begins its "running" process of recording change.

 

[McCravey]

In another verse God is quoted as saying "You are my son this day have I begotten thee" He was of course referring to Christ (at least as far as we can assume) If this is speaking of Christ's birth as a human male then it would make sense., If however Christ existed before he was born as a human male...then he existed before his earthly vessel (as the scriptures we quoted in earlier posts indicate-- the world was created when he was known as The Word)...Which means he was re-incarnated into a new form.

Does the same thing happen when we are born again?

Do we receive our new life from God---a life that always existed?

 

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings McCravey,

Jesus is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE.

If you have LIFE, you have Jesus, NO life, no Jesus. He IS our eternal LIFE. We are of the dust and to dust we shall return. Real life that is eternal is ONLY found in Jesus. Yes, you were "conceived in the mind of God" BEFORE time began, but you DID NOT exist, till you received mortal life, the breath of life. Then when you accepted Christ, you received ETERNAL LIFE.

Does that help?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[G4m]

I was thinking the other day about the meaning of eternal life. If we have eternal life then is it possible that that life will not only sustain us forever but that we have also existed for ever?

Does it have anything to do with our concept of time?

Curiously I just had this exact same thought. If time ends, then all that can be is God:

1 Corinthians 15
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[jbarcher]

From my readings and own thoughts; God is outside time but enters time to do stuff. This makes the most sense.

I hear about 11 dimensions but there apparently is no proof for the 5-11 dimensions. Also, I hear that it is speculated that if there is a God; God is somewhere in those 5-11 dimensions.

Is my post earlier about 'eternal' and 'everlasting' understandable?

 

[WashedClean]

Greetings McCravey,

Jesus is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE.

If you have LIFE, you have Jesus, NO life, no Jesus. He IS our eternal LIFE. We are of the dust and to dust we shall return. Real life that is eternal is ONLY found in Jesus. Yes, you were "conceived in the mind of God" BEFORE time began, but you DID NOT exist, till you received mortal life, the breath of life. Then when you accepted Christ, you received ETERNAL LIFE.

Does that help?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Hi All,

Great discussion. I agree with all of Dad Ernie's posts.

Check out Psalm 139:15-16 from the Amplified Bible

15My frame was not hidden from You when I was being formed in secret [and] intricately and curiously wrought [as if embroidered with various colors] in the depths of the earth [a region of darkness and mystery]. 16Your eyes saw my unformed substance, and in Your book all the days [of my life] were written before ever they took shape, when as yet there was none of them.

I think this proves that our days started at some point, they were not eternal. Although once we are physically conceived, our souls are destined to be forever somewhere, even after physical death. Also, God knew us before He formed us, but we didn't know Him.

Don't the Mormons believe that we existed in Heaven before the foundation of the earth? I know they believe a lot of other things that are not part of mainstream Christianity as well. Just curious, don't want to get off track

WashedClean

 

[Breetai]

Don't the Mormons believe that we existed in Heaven before the foundation of the earth?

Yes, their doctrine teaches that.