Have never experienced belief

[Observer]

Hi all,

I've been pursuing a relationship with God for around 12 years and have yet to feel that I believe that God truly exists or that Jesus existed/exists and died for our sins. I pray multiple times a day, I read the bible a little (a lot in times of turmoil) and my husband is Christian. I have said the prayers to ask Jesus into my heart many times. I understand that we cannot do anything to be saved, but at the same time, there are a lot of things we can do to prevent ourselves receiving salvation and I actively try to avoid that through prayer and trying to be a good person, disciplining myself and living as though God exists. I recognise that if there is a God, then he has helped me through a lot. I give thanks. But I still don't have any solid feeling or belief that he exists. I struggle even moreso with the concept of Jesus. I have not been baptized as I think you need to have belief first. I have very severe anxiety disorder so I do not have a lot of faith but try my best.
Not sure what to do at this point other than keep praying and waiting?

I am concerned that God will not answer my prayers due to lack of belief and faith, however it seems he does give me a lot of help no matter what faith I have, which seems to contradict some scripture and what people tell me about faith and prayer?

I am concerned about going to hell if there is one and the general meaning of my life. I also have a lot of emotional torment most days due to OCD and anxiety that makes me see no real purpose to live. I have a very dark outlook and struggle through most days emotionally, without any sense of security or meaning. I feel there is no security as everything that matters in my life will be destroyed.

Like I've said, it's been 12 years and I don't feel I'm developing spiritually or emotionally. Should I get baptized? I don't go to church as I do a lot of shift work and I never liked to go in the past. I could try to force myself again but if I get a day off, I just sleep.

Thanks for reading

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hi all,

I've been pursuing a relationship with God for around 12 years and have yet to feel that I believe that God truly exists or that Jesus existed/exists and died for our sins. I pray multiple times a day, I read the bible a little (a lot in times of turmoil) and my husband is Christian. I have said the prayers to ask Jesus into my heart many times. I understand that we cannot do anything to be saved, but at the same time, there are a lot of things we can do to prevent ourselves receiving salvation and I actively try to avoid that through prayer and trying to be a good person, disciplining myself and living as though God exists. I recognise that if there is a God, then he has helped me through a lot. I give thanks. But I still don't have any solid feeling or belief that he exists. I struggle even moreso with the concept of Jesus. I have not been baptized as I think you need to have belief first. I have very severe anxiety disorder so I do not have a lot of faith but try my best.
Not sure what to do at this point other than keep praying and waiting?

I am concerned that God will not answer my prayers due to lack of belief and faith, however it seems he does give me a lot of help no matter what faith I have, which seems to contradict some scripture and what people tell me about faith and prayer?

I am concerned about going to hell if there is one and the general meaning of my life. I also have a lot of emotional torment most days due to OCD and anxiety that makes me see no real purpose to live. I have a very dark outlook and struggle through most days emotionally, without any sense of security or meaning. I feel there is no security as everything that matters in my life will be destroyed.

Like I've said, it's been 12 years and I don't feel I'm developing spiritually or emotionally. Should I get baptized? I don't go to church as I do a lot of shift work and I never liked to go in the past. I could try to force myself again but if I get a day off, I just sleep.

Thanks for reading

Observer,

One thing you may need to realize is despite the fact that you experience (and have) OCD and anxiety, your feelings may not reflect how God really feels about you. So, you may want to try beginning your thoughts each day with the premise that God loves each of us, but even with that being the case, His Love will not manifest itself in such a way that it automatically causes you to feel 'ok.' Hopefully, more positive feelings may come to you in time, but it isn't a requirement, or a sure result, for having faith.

Also, if and when you battle OCD and anxiety, just know that having these struggles is no sin, and they are not a sign that you're a "bad" person. It's just that life is hard, and hardship is a part of life which we all have to face in our own individual and unique ways. But, remember, regardless of your feelings, Jesus loves you and gave His life for you just as much as He did for anyone else.

Peace
2PhiloVoid

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

Hi all,

I've been pursuing a relationship with God for around 12 years and have yet to feel that I believe that God truly exists or that Jesus existed/exists and died for our sins. I pray multiple times a day, I read the bible a little (a lot in times of turmoil) and my husband is Christian. I have said the prayers to ask Jesus into my heart many times. I understand that we cannot do anything to be saved, but at the same time, there are a lot of things we can do to prevent ourselves receiving salvation and I actively try to avoid that through prayer and trying to be a good person, disciplining myself and living as though God exists. I recognise that if there is a God, then he has helped me through a lot. I give thanks. But I still don't have any solid feeling or belief that he exists. I struggle even moreso with the concept of Jesus. I have not been baptized as I think you need to have belief first. I have very severe anxiety disorder so I do not have a lot of faith but try my best.
Not sure what to do at this point other than keep praying and waiting?

I am concerned that God will not answer my prayers due to lack of belief and faith, however it seems he does give me a lot of help no matter what faith I have, which seems to contradict some scripture and what people tell me about faith and prayer?

I am concerned about going to hell if there is one and the general meaning of my life. I also have a lot of emotional torment most days due to OCD and anxiety that makes me see no real purpose to live. I have a very dark outlook and struggle through most days emotionally, without any sense of security or meaning. I feel there is no security as everything that matters in my life will be destroyed.

Like I've said, it's been 12 years and I don't feel I'm developing spiritually or emotionally. Should I get baptized? I don't go to church as I do a lot of shift work and I never liked to go in the past. I could try to force myself again but if I get a day off, I just sleep.

Thanks for reading

Do you believe that a design requires a personal Designer and something in existence had a cause behind it ? Do u see any semblance of the personal, the intelligent when it comes to examining creation ? Thanks.

 

[razzelflabben]

When we talk about belief unto salvation, many people are looking for a mental assent into understanding. Scripture however tells us that it is belief of the heart that brings about salvation. As best I can tell from your post, you have that, but maybe not, that is between you and God. The heart is the core of man, the part that allows reason to fall away when push comes to shove. It's the deep seated emotional determination. If you believe with your heart, I see no reason to not be baptized, but understand that baptism is an outward demonstration of an inward act and I suspect that is the problem. In your post, I see nothing that indicates you have abandoned yourself into God. IOW's scripture tells us to circumcise our hearts. That is to cut away the sinful desires and allow God to replace them with His desires. Your post suggests you are doing all the work while keeping God at arms length, not giving yourself to Him out of fear that you might have it wrong or something like that. God wants all of you not just your efforts. He wants you to Love Him with all your heart, your soul, your mind, and your strength. Your post suggests your trying to Love Him with only your strength, this will create a deficit and lack of belief.

As to evidence that is convincing...scripture says that our evidence of salvation is the HS and the work He is doing in us.

Thought....try this, ask God with a yielding heart, to take everything that is not yours and leave behind only truth. Every time you start to doubt, start to question, start too loose peace, ask Him to take what is not yours and then let go of whatever He asks you to let go of and see what happens. Just a thought for what it's worth.

 

[Neogaia777]

Hi all,

I've been pursuing a relationship with God for around 12 years and have yet to feel that I believe that God truly exists or that Jesus existed/exists and died for our sins. I pray multiple times a day, I read the bible a little (a lot in times of turmoil) and my husband is Christian. I have said the prayers to ask Jesus into my heart many times. I understand that we cannot do anything to be saved, but at the same time, there are a lot of things we can do to prevent ourselves receiving salvation

Yeah, like what?

and I actively try to avoid that through prayer and trying to be a good person, disciplining myself and living as though God exists. I recognise that if there is a God, then he has helped me through a lot. I give thanks. But I still don't have any solid feeling or belief that he exists. I struggle even moreso with the concept of Jesus. I have not been baptized as I think you need to have belief first. I have very severe anxiety disorder so I do not have a lot of faith but try my best.
Not sure what to do at this point other than keep praying and waiting?

I am concerned that God will not answer my prayers due to lack of belief and faith, however it seems he does give me a lot of help no matter what faith I have, which seems to contradict some scripture and what people tell me about faith and prayer?

I am concerned about going to hell if there is one and the general meaning of my life. I also have a lot of emotional torment most days due to OCD and anxiety that makes me see no real purpose to live. I have a very dark outlook and struggle through most days emotionally, without any sense of security or meaning. I feel there is no security as everything that matters in my life will be destroyed.

Like I've said, it's been 12 years and I don't feel I'm developing spiritually or emotionally. Should I get baptized? I don't go to church as I do a lot of shift work and I never liked to go in the past. I could try to force myself again but if I get a day off, I just sleep.

Thanks for reading

What do you need to believe in God? You pray... why do you have doubts of God's very existence, if you pray and study?, do you not believe what you are reading?

I will pray that God reveal himself to you...

God Bless!

 

[paul1149]

I am concerned that God will not answer my prayers due to lack of belief and faith, however it seems he does give me a lot of help no matter what faith I have, which seems to contradict some scripture and what people tell me about faith and prayer?

I am concerned about going to hell if there is one and the general meaning of my life. I also have a lot of emotional torment most days due to OCD and anxiety that makes me see no real purpose to live. I have a very dark outlook and struggle through most days emotionally, without any sense of security or meaning. I feel there is no security as everything that matters in my life will be destroyed.

Like I've said, it's been 12 years and I don't feel I'm developing spiritually or emotionally. Should I get baptized?

To what's already been said, may I say that you've raised some interesting questions, ones that I think affect us all to some degree at points in our spiritual walk. The Bible is full of exhortations to faith and to prayer. "You have not because you ask not" seems to link results with our satisfying conditions. And both faith and prayer are part of those conditions.

Yet the grace of God is prevenient, meaning it goes before us. God is seeking us more than we seek Him. Christ stands at the door and knocks. Our part is to open to Him. So we shouldn't be surprised that God showers blessings in a lavish way that doesn't seem to hinge on any meritocracy we can discern. I think of the conversion of Saul of Tarsus at this point.

God has promised in so many places in Scripture to meet us where we are, if we will only turn to Him.


The problem of head v. heart knowledge of God is one of the prevailing themes of these forums. I wish there were an easy answer, but I do believe the solution is simple. It's a matter of continually placing yourself into God's care. Seek to honor Him with each decision, place more and more trust in Him. Keep inviting Him in to change you. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to those who persist in prayer.

For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent;
or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?
If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” -Luke 11:10-13​

He doesn't say "immediately". Sometimes it takes time and effort. And James 2 tells us we need to back our prayers up with appropriate action. But I believe that if you do that, because you are exercising trust in God, He will honor your prayers and efforts and reward you.[/FONT]

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. -Heb 11:6​

Many things can be said about baptism, but one aspect of it is given by Peter:

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, -1Pet 3:21​

I don't think people should get baptized until they are sure of their commitment. But OTOH we don't have to have all our doctrine and praxis ducks lined up before we go ahead with it. We come to God imperfect, and the flesh is always with us to some degree or other until we finally put it off. I know that I was baptized while still having major theological uncertainties. But I decided that I was going to follow Christ nonetheless, according to the Light that I did have, not the Light I did not have as yet. And God was faithful, revealing what I needed to know of foundational truth over the next two years.

There's a major lesson there. It is to be faithful with what you have, however small it is, and more will be given. One thing I quite often pray for, and that I believe is the way out of the head v. heart dilemma, is to pray to be humbled to the point of being able to make a clear decision for faith, no matter how atomically small that decision might be. For it's better to be in that humble position than to hover above it in uncertainty. This, to my mind, is what sowing to the spirit is all about.

 

[oi_antz]

Hi all,

I have yet to feel that I believe that God truly exists or that Jesus existed/exists and died for our sins.

Hi there, yes I am also finding that it is difficult to believe that Jesus died for our sins, but the scriptures certainly show that He died for our sake even though we are sinners. There is a slight difference in what these words imply though - on one hand there is the idea that God took the punishment away from us and put it on Jesus instead, blow-for-blow. Whereas what He is leading me to find as truth, is actually that Jesus needed to go through the crucifixion so that God could justifiably establish an everlasting covenant in His name, taking away the rulership of the kingdom of God from the corrupt human leaders of the religion of the time. There was no other way to do that, because the religious leaders had refused to accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah He was intended to be. So through His sacrifice, He has made it possible for all of us to worship God the right way. Consider in this, I find the doctrine of salvation to be the resulting good conscience that comes from living obediently to God, and in that way receiving God's forgiveness for past sins. I do not see that there is any cause to believe that the forgiveness for our sins is made possible because Jesus absorbed the punishment that we should have had. Rather, that when He made this sacrifice so that we could have good spiritual life, He decided to undergo the brutal treatment of humans who placed their anger and hatred upon Him, so that God had a right to declare Israel's adultery toward Him, then we could receive the love that God has for us. In this way it becomes true that the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, but rather than the punishment being the wrath of God, the punishment that was upon Him was the wrath of man.

I understand that we cannot do anything to be saved, but at the same time, there are a lot of things we can do to prevent ourselves receiving salvation

There is a contradiction here. If there is something we can do to prevent our salvation, then this necessarily states that there is something we can do (and/or not do) to receive salvation.

But I still don't have any solid feeling or belief that he exists.

I reckon actually, that once you have come to realise the truth of who He is, then you will be able to see that all this time, He has been sustaining you. You have managed to have enough faith to keep your holy spirit - that is, the willingness to live in a way that pleases Him, even though you have not yet encountered the crucial information that will enable you to understand without doubt the truth of Christianity. We continue to pray therefore that God will lead you into these understandings so that you can be sure that what you believe is true.

I have not been baptized as I think you need to have belief first.

I do not agree with this. I believe that baptism is the single event that demonstrates between yourself and God in sight of heaven and earth, that you are committed to Him and He is committed to you. If you do truly desire to serve God, so that you will be useful to Him as He works in the world to bring people to salvation; then you should be baptised and allow Him to fulfil His own role in that commitment. I do not doubt one bit that when you decide to give your life to Him for service, and publicly declare this by baptism, then you will certainly come quickly to know Him.

I have very severe anxiety disorder so I do not have a lot of faith but try my best.
Not sure what to do at this point other than keep praying and waiting?

I am praying too.

I am concerned that God will not answer my prayers due to lack of belief and faith, however it seems he does give me a lot of help no matter what faith I have, which seems to contradict some scripture and what people tell me about faith and prayer?

Wow, can you please show me the scriptures that you mentioned here?

I am concerned about going to hell if there is one and the general meaning of my life. I also have a lot of emotional torment most days due to OCD and anxiety that makes me see no real purpose to live. I have a very dark outlook and struggle through most days emotionally, without any sense of security or meaning. I feel there is no security as everything that matters in my life will be destroyed.

God can lead you to understand life so that you can have peace, certainty and hope. In fact it is necessary for His servants to have these understandings so that they are able to help bring others toward His salvation. So God would certainly desire to bring you into a state of good health so that you are fit to do good works for Him. As we know that healing can take time, you may continue to struggle with these things a bit longer, but you should also expect that His work would begin immediately.

Like I've said, it's been 12 years and I don't feel I'm developing spiritually or emotionally.

Do you think it is possible that you have been developing spiritually but that you are not able to recognise it at this time?

Should I get baptized? I don't go to church as I do a lot of shift work and I never liked to go in the past. I could try to force myself again but if I get a day off, I just sleep.

Thanks for reading

Yes. You should go around all the churches in your area until you find one that you just know is the place that will cause you to grow. The ones who love you, where the spirit of God speaks to you. And yes, you should be baptised, then you will have established that covenant with Him in Jesus' name, and He will begin to act upon His commitment to bring you fully to salvation. He has already invited you to be baptised and to form this commitment, so the decision is yours to make whether you do want to be one of His people, to work for Him as He is bringing us to know the truth more day by day.