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Onwardclimb said:awakkywabbit,
I get sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo MAD when I hear the argument that Jesus had nonbelievers for friends. IMHO, Jesus's relationship with them is better described by the word "acquaintance". He was around them, He'd go where they were, He witnessed to them and He healed them etc.... but as I understand it, they WEREN'T His friends. The only reference that the Bible gives for Him being a friend of sinners & drunkards was given by the pharisees NOT by Christ Himself. I don't know, it just upsets me BIG time when I see Christians agreeing with the pharisees about Christ. Also, Jesus said that the world loves its own and hates us if we belong to Him (John 15:18-25). Personally, I'd be VERY concerned about who I belonged to if I were able to have non-Christians for friends.
God bless,
Onwardclimb
Personally, Im NOT too much concerned with what the translation would be in original greek. Anywho, like I said before Jesus NEVER said that about Himself, the Pharisees did.I don't think the original greek would translate into acquaintance. I could see how it would make things easier for people if it did though.
REALLY???? And just how did you come to that conclusion??? Do we have to be friends with everyone we eat with???? I cant answer for you, but I personally do NOT. Heres some of what Jesus said about His friends: John 15:13-16 18-19 (NIV) 13-Greater love has no one than this, that He lay down His life for His friends. 14-You are my friends if you do what I command. 15- I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his masters business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16-You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruitfruit that will last .18-If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19-If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world. That is why the world hates you.Just the fact that Jesus ate with tax collectors is a sign that they were much more then mere acquaintances.
BUT they did NOT know Christ!!!!!!!!!!!! Therefore, I do NOT believe we should share their opinion(s)/belief(s) about Him.Agreeing with the Pharisees is not actually a bad thing, after all they were the religious gurus of the day(church leaders if you will), at that time. Their heart may have been in the wrong place, but they sure did know their Scriptures.
As you well know, the answer to your questions is NO!!! You witness by asking God to lead you, following His lead when He presents an opportunity, and praying that the Holy Spirit will speak through you & allowing Him to do so. If God leads you to hand them a track, warn them about Hell etc you do it, because HE and ONLY HE knows what they need to hear & when they need to hear it.My question is how do you witness to someone who is not your friend? Hand them a track, tell them you'll be in hell if you don't believe and then pat yourself on the back because they gave you a dirty look and your were persecuted?
IMHO, its your perception of Christians who dont/wont have non-Christian friends that has got to go. As I understand it youre just assuming that we have that holier than thou mentality just because we will not be friends with an unbeliever. I cant speak for everyone you feel this way about, but PERSONALLY, I think I am better than NOONE, but I do believe that I am following the doctrine of the scriptures (ie. James 4:4 (NIV)- You adulterous people, dont you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.), and the example of the Savior by not being friends with them, and just being acquaintances. When they come to Christ, THEN we can possibly be friends, but before that time were JUST acquaintances.Honestly I get sooooooooo mad when I hear Christians have this kind of attitude. This whole better then thou thing has got to go.
I guess we have differing interpretations of what friendship is. I personally can be there for ALL people---as an acquaintance, and without becoming an enemy of God.Befriending an unbeliever doesn't mean you are yoked together with them. It means you are there for them when you they need you.
I can kind of agree with you here, with the exception that I believe that we can be a light by being acquaintances/in the world but not of it. I DONT have to be united with unbelievers in a bond/connection as deeply spiritual & supporting as friendship to me is (ie. David & Johnathan, Elijah & Elisha). Your Sister In Christ,OnwardclimbI think that someone else in this thread mentioned the verse, "what does light have in common with darkness" and they are right when they said nothing at all. But we are called to be a light in the darkness, however we are shining our lights in the wrong place. The world is filled with darkness and the Christians who reflect the true light of Christ are barricading themselves behind the church doors while the world wanders around aimlessly in the dark.
I DISAGREE with your interpretation/rationalization of that scripture. I DONT believe friends with the world means ANYTHING other than what it says. The Bible says that we are NOT to be friends with the world to me the key word is friends. As I understand it, you can only be a friend to/friends with PEOPLE, and the world is a common term in scriptures for masses of evil people/people who do not know God/Christ (ie. Isa 13:11, Mt 5:14, Ro 3:19, 2Cor 5:19, James 2:5 etc.)I think there is a world of difference to the concept of being "friends with the world" and friends with people. "Friends with the world" is a figure of speach for being materialistic, conforming to expectations in order to gain in this life (that promotion, big house,fast car, whatever, conforming to the ziegiest, compromise of belief and faith.
Pardonai moi, was I unfriendly in my posts??? If so, PLEASE accept my apology.If you are not prepared to engage listen and debate in a friendly way then there is no point in attempting to witness is this field.
I think that God is honoured by Christians who trust Him enough to stand their ground, speak the revelations He has given them, and not compromise their beliefs because of what other people may think/say about them. Seeing as how ONLY God knows the heart, what He has revealed to that respective heart etc if one would bestow those kind of labels on someone for speaking whats on THEIR heart(s), then they would be guilty of judgementalism. Personally, I tend NOT to let the judgements of man/the world bother me, because when it all comes down to it the ONLY opinion/judgement of me and/or anything I may do/say/write etc that matters is GODS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Unless you think God is honoured by Christians who come across as being ignorant, bigotted, closed minded and intollerant).
Then Id know that I had heard the WRONG voice, because I believe that thats going against the very doctrine of the word of God.And if he tells you to act like a friend to them
WRONG!!!! Id more than likely say Get thee behind me satan and resist the masquerading demonic spirit that told me that.you would do it... right?
AGREED!!!! Only, I can/will influence as an associate.we should be seeking to be an influence not influenced.
For the record, I DONT shun anyone. Nor do I understand how not being friends with unbelievers/the world/wicked people/darkness etc is shunning.My concern is that is un-Christ-like to shun others as if they were contamination.
It all depends on the type of cleaner that you use. My personal favorite is Scrubbing Bubbles you just spray that foamy stuff on the grimy area, wait a couple of minutes/however long it may take--you can even leave the room clean somewhere else etc while you wait--check in on it now and then and when you see that the bubbles have dissolved the grime away you just rinse it down the drain.You have to get up close and personnel with the lavatory bowl to get it clean. Attack the grime with cleaner with your hands, paper towl and a pair or rubbber gloves. If you try to keep it at arms length with a brush you don't get the same result and you end up with the contents of the loo festering of the brush hairs
I guess here is where we differ. I believe that it takes someone with MUCH more cleansing power than we have to cleanse fallen human beings. I think that its our job to spray on the One with the power to wash them with hyssop by prayer(s), witness(ing), and/or spreading His seeds of righteousness. He knows the kind of cleansing they need and when and where they need it, I DONT. Also, not too many people (Christian/not) respond well to being attacked, my experience is that those kind of cleanings usually only succeed in pushing people away. God bless,OnwardclimbThe same with dealing with fallen human beings.
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