happiness

[lutherangerman]

What is the christian idea of happiness?

I know a pastor who told me once that he would reject "happy-ism", the idea that I must be happy all the time and that happiness is the greatest good in life.

I tend to agree with this, but only with reservations. For one, I think that to be happy frequently simply is a human need. And second, there are really worse things a human can aspire to than just mere happiness.

Of course I cannot and should not expect from life to contain only happiness for me. I must be able to grief and bear suffering, which simply is part of life. But while seeking constant happiness is wrong, it is still a pleasant and positive state of mind that is not per se sinful, and experiencing happiness helps in accepting life.

How do you view happiness? Are you happy often?

 

[Received]

Happiness is a disgustingly vague term. Morphologically the root term is "hap", which means "fortune". That's not how a lot of people use it, but this does tend to shed some light on the passivity involved with it.

We need more complicated terms. Positive psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi coined the phenomenological experience "flow" to describe the state of being absorbed in a meaningful activity. This experience comes about with what he cleverly calls autotelic ("goal within itself") experiences. You lose a sense of self, and consciousness becomes ordered -- which is a brilliant summary of the experiences of being in a relationship with God, such as through prayer, in worship, etc.

So maybe that's a more useful start.

 

[Sphinx777]

Christian Hedonism








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[OldWiseGuy]

I think Christian 'happiness' is the same as anyone elses. What we are happy about may differ in some ways. We 'rejoice' (an emotion similiar to 'happy') in things the world might consider foolish.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I think that the essential difference between christian and secular, or christian and other faith, is the cause and effect component of happiness. While all would likely accept that happiness might be a effect of a cause, only Christians would give the trinity causal power, for instance in the beatific vision. Also, the happiness thus attained would be greater that the happiness attained eating a sponge pudding. Therefore, the human potential for happiness in not fully comprehended by the secular mind, the Christian might say. So, our model of relality influences our explanation of happiness etc.

 

[Tielec]

Something about religions tends to produce happy people it would be interesting if we knew what it was. I would disagree with GrowingSmaller if he is claiming that there are supernatural forces at play, there are numerous theoretical explanations which are more plausible - we know that having a purpose makes people happier, religion can provide this purpose; the whole concept of happiness might be so entangled with judeo-christian ideas (in the west) that measures of happiness are correlational with religious belief; religion might attract happier people; happiness might be derived from social contact bought about by religious observance etc etc...

Let's hope that we discover what about religion makes us happy before it goes the way of the dinosaur

 

[dlamberth]

One of my favorite radio shows is Speaking on Faith, now renamed as Being. On October 17th Krista Tippett chaired a panel discussion entitled "Pursuing Happiness".

Krista's complete interview with the Dalai Lama, Jonathan Sacks (chief rabbi of the Commonwealth), Katharine Jefferts Schori (presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church), and Islamic scholar Seyyed Hossein Nasr can be found HERE.

.

 

[sandwiches]

Also, the happiness thus attained would be greater that the happiness attained eating a sponge pudding. Therefore, the human potential for happiness in not fully comprehended by the secular mind, the Christian might say. So, our model of relality influences our explanation of happiness etc.

How could we verify this statement? Is there really a difference between the feeling of happiness of having a child and the happiness of a Christian... for... being Christian or whatever?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

How could we verify this statement?

I would argue that I can know about a future state without it being systematically verified. Instead I might depend on verification of other Christian beliefs (through religious experience), and then believe that a belief in a future state is coherent with or implied by that verified belief. The epistemic justification comes not from ean experience of the afterlife, but is borrowed from a more basic experience.


Of course there is "eschatological verification" but I cannot depend on that if it has not occurred.

Is there really a difference between the feeling of happiness of having a child and the happiness of a Christian... for... being Christian or whatever?

How would you define "difference"? Some of the 'happiness behaviours' might be similar, but some of the inner cognitions might be different.

 

[sandwiches]

I would argue that I can know about a future state without it being systematically verified. Instead I might depend on verification of other Christian beliefs (through religious experience), and then believe that a belief in a future state is coherent with or implied by that verified belief. The epistemic justification comes not from ean experience of the afterlife, but is borrowed from a more basic experience.

Of course there is "eschatological verification" but I cannot depend on that if it has not occurred.

How would you define "difference"? Some of the 'happiness behaviours' might be similar, but some of the inner cognitions might be different.

What I meant to ask was:
How can we truly find out that happiness from Christian beliefs is indeed greater than happiness obtained otherwise?

 

[quatona]

How could we verify this statement?

I think it´s pointless to even try to verify or falsify a statement that involves an unspecific term such as "greater".

 

[sandwiches]

I think it´s pointless to even try to verify or falsify a statement that involves an unspecific term such as "greater".

My point exactly.

 

[Received]

Perhaps on rather subtle levels it's the case, but a qualitative state such as happiness can have comparative adjectives such as "greater" or "lesser" tacked onto them. Reading a good book in pure silence is a "greater" happiness experience than reading a bad book enclosed in noise -- unless you hate reading, in which case any noise is a distraction from an already boring experience.

But it all depends on different variables, which makes determining happiness complicated only if you insist on speaking in absolutes. Happiness is a subjective affair, but this doesn't mean that some experiences don't have universal (rather than absolute) happiness potential. Mindfulness and prayer are going to be "greater" happiness experiences than whoring yourself to politics (even if you think money is a greater value than it actually is in terms of your experience).

 

[GrowingSmaller]

What I meant to ask was:
How can we truly find out that happiness from Christian beliefs is indeed greater than happiness obtained otherwise?

I don't think the claim that it is greater is of this life, so we'll have to wait. But the claim that Chrisitan happiness is causally different (for example by originating in Christian beliefs) seems obvious.

 

[lutherangerman]

Sandwiches, I come from an atheist background and have only considered christian faith for the last 10 years, and not constantly. Although I have been baptized in 2008 I frequently remember how my life was in regards to happiness when I was an atheist, or later when I was "just" a seeker that had not quite decided himself yet.

What I find is that my "old" happiness (my happiness while I was an atheist) was greater emotionally, my happiness as a christian is more serious if I have it, more sincere. IE, I often remember times when I was an atheist and when I delighted on being so free - I felt like my life belonged to me completely and would always be so until my death where I would gloriously become unimportant, unsignificant, nonexistent. This produced considerable happiness for me while it lasted. But then I became sick and I began to think of matters which I previously rarely thought about, if perhaps I would have to suffer a lot in the remaining days of my life, if there would be such a thing like judgment after my death, if there was perhaps a responsibility attached to life, either by Karma or by a wise and watchful Maker. My old "happiness of carelessness" started to seem rather foolish. If I strictly go by the emotions then I still must say that my old happiness was more pleasant, but if I go by sincerity, by truthfulness, by meaningfulness, then my new happiness is better and more reliable even. I've learned that through faith I can draw God into my life ... I know that's not theologically correct because in fact God gives me faith and draws me into His life, but the fact is that if I muster faith I am already sharing again in God's life and God's greatness, ensuring that my life is not just a drop of rain that falls from the sky and evaporates on the branch of a tree. I found that my faith is very reasonable and that the christian truth mostly describes a God concerned for me and for all of us, and that in a perfect way. And with this I arrive at a new happiness, a sincere, glorious happiness that deletes me and puts part of me in Jesus' book of life and the other part in Jesus' hands that daily renew me and make me a new creation.

So while formerly the happiness was intense but was also idiotic and truthless, my new happiness is less engulfing and less "great", but then again it is lasting and secure and trustworthy. I used to have a huge palace, but it was build on sand and while I can still see it stand in my memory I know it could have crumbled anytime. Now I have a small hut, but it's built on rock and I have no real fears. The happiness of having made the right choice.

 

[sandwiches]

I don't think the claim that it is greater is of this life, so we'll have to wait. But the claim that Chrisitan happiness is causally different (for example by originating in Christian beliefs) seems obvious.

I never talked about causality or anything similar. I merely responded to your post in which you indicated that you believe that Christian beliefs bring a 'greater happiness' is all.

 

[GQ Chris]

I am happy often. I have my ups and downs just like anybody else.

I think that if you ask Christians this question you will get many different answers because of the myriad denominations they come from.

As a Christian, happiness shouldn't be the priority in life, but Holiness. It isn't a sin to be happy at all, or to even pursue it until you make that your number one priority. Also, Christians as well as those who aren't pursue happiness in the temporal, material things in this life, money, possessions, careers.

 

[sandwiches]

Sandwiches, I come from an atheist background and have only considered christian faith for the last 10 years, and not constantly. Although I have been baptized in 2008 I frequently remember how my life was in regards to happiness when I was an atheist, or later when I was "just" a seeker that had not quite decided himself yet.

What I find is that my "old" happiness (my happiness while I was an atheist) was greater emotionally, my happiness as a christian is more serious if I have it, more sincere. IE, I often remember times when I was an atheist and when I delighted on being so free - I felt like my life belonged to me completely and would always be so until my death where I would gloriously become unimportant, unsignificant, nonexistent. This produced considerable happiness for me while it lasted. But then I became sick and I began to think of matters which I previously rarely thought about, if perhaps I would have to suffer a lot in the remaining days of my life, if there would be such a thing like judgment after my death, if there was perhaps a responsibility attached to life, either by Karma or by a wise and watchful Maker. My old "happiness of carelessness" started to seem rather foolish. If I strictly go by the emotions then I still must say that my old happiness was more pleasant, but if I go by sincerity, by truthfulness, by meaningfulness, then my new happiness is better and more reliable even. I've learned that through faith I can draw God into my life ... I know that's not theologically correct because in fact God gives me faith and draws me into His life, but the fact is that if I muster faith I am already sharing again in God's life and God's greatness, ensuring that my life is not just a drop of rain that falls from the sky and evaporates on the branch of a tree. I found that my faith is very reasonable and that the christian truth mostly describes a God concerned for me and for all of us, and that in a perfect way. And with this I arrive at a new happiness, a sincere, glorious happiness that deletes me and puts part of me in Jesus' book of life and the other part in Jesus' hands that daily renew me and make me a new creation.

So while formerly the happiness was intense but was also idiotic and truthless, my new happiness is less engulfing and less "great", but then again it is lasting and secure and trustworthy. I used to have a huge palace, but it was build on sand and while I can still see it stand in my memory I know it could have crumbled anytime. Now I have a small hut, but it's built on rock and I have no real fears. The happiness of having made the right choice.

Thank you for sharing and I hope that whatever illness you had has been or is being taken care of. As far as your point, from what you've said, it seems like you had a reason to feel fear and, in that fear, you resorted to belief in a deity. I'm glad that's worked out for you to calm you regarding your mortality and maybe I'll feel the same need or want one day. Who knows? However, I can only speak about what I know, so far. And to be quite honest, to me, saying things like 'truthless' happiness has no meaning. I simply do not know what that means. I'm not sure if mean to say that, in retrospect, you feel more fulfilled now or that you feel you were lying to yourself.

However, one thing I can tell you that I do not share with your former self is what you call "happiness of carelessness." This kind of reminds me of a conversation I was having with a friend the other day. He told me that he's been somewhat 'on the fence' about his beliefs but that he wants to become a serious Christian because he feels like something is missing or like something is unfulfilled. When I responded to him that I don't share that despite being an atheist, he responded in a similar manner as you did: "I used to feel the same way when I was younger. I didn't have a care in the world and I thought I knew it all." You truly mirrored what he said. And this is not the first time I have been told something similar. Another friend of mine, a Muslim, told me something similar.

I don't think people with theistic tendencies understand what I mean when I say I am happy or fulfilled. They seem to think that I believe I am on top of the world, nothing can hurt me, that I have all the answers in my hand. Far from that. I am happy and self-fulfilled but this does not mean that I have no worries, no cares, no fears, no wants or no needs. I do. If you're saying that your faith removed all those for you, then that's great. However, I prefer to believe not what is comfortable but what is true. I understand I will never know everything or even a trillionth of what is to be known out there. I know I will not live forever nor will my loved ones. I know I will experience suffering, pain, disease, etc. I know I will be wrong much more often than I'm right. I feel happy and free BECAUSE I understand and have accepted these uncomfortable and unpleasant things in life. I do not seek merely comfort in life, I seek understanding and clarity.

 

[ug333]

...... sage sandwiches! Nicely said

 

[lutherangerman]

Sorry to come back so late to this discussion, but I had forgotten about it for a while.

When I speak about truthless happiness, I am describing a happiness that I formerly indulged in but now tend to have qualms about. For example, I believe in God and that I have to be obedient to Him. But in the same time sometimes I do not want to follow His ways and break the rules. I mean, recently I promised my Mom that I would not buy a certain new computer game, but then I visited some sites about this game and became so excited and desirous of it that I went ahead and bought it anyway. I ended up feeling immensely happy about it, while all the time my conscience was screaming no, this is wrong. It was a happiness that went against what I knew to be true in my life, that I was a genuine and authentic christian. But it just felt so good ... in my past life I indulged in breaking rules when I saw them and to get my happiness from secretly pursuing my own goals when in fact other things were called for. For example, it felt almost orgasmic to me to play hooky with any responsibility I happened to have and to do my own thing instead. Emotionally it was an exquisite feeling. But spiritually, in the eyes of wisdom, it was a bad mistake and caused noetic structures to grow in me which plague me to this day. Add to that the discontent with legitimate happiness that other christians usually pursue, and it quickly becomes a relevant issue, if only for mental health. Truthless happiness, in the end, is disordered happiness that cannot be justified by faithful reason. That's what I mean, and you are right, it includes lying to yourself about these things.