Happenstance

Mark.E said:

If I were born in some population-300 town in Mississippi, I'd likely be a Southern Baptist, because my parents would have been too.

If I were born in some village in Pakistan, I'd know nothing but Sunni Islam, because again, my parents/village would have been that way too.

Many people I've met at church are Eastern Orthodox because they were raised in it, others because they converted around my age, later, or even in their late 50's. Even for the converts, they "happened" to encounter this faith.

This is playing out over seven billion times. Religion tends to be something we inherit like accents or property, purely by upbringing. This is unnerving. How can so much of our life and fate hinge on pure happenstance like this? Billions go their lives ignorant of other faiths, let alone whichever one of them might be the "right" one. How are we all expected to find what's right?

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If I am Southern Baptist or Eastern Orthodox am I going to be more saved or less saved? NO as long as I accept Jesus as my savior as the Bible states, I am saved. Truly the vast majority of people do not know enough about theology to be able to tell you the difference between the major denominations, they see the visual differences but that is about as much as they know This is not to say that they do not know a good deal about the theology of the denomination that they are a member of, although that is the case with a percentage of the people. It can be argued that there is one "right" one as you put it and that is argued all the time on this site, but saved is saved and that is what truly is important in the final judgment.

Mark.E said:

Even for the converts, they "happened" to encounter this faith.

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They started with, as everybody does, with a belief in God and they investigated that belief.

Most people don't do this, they stay where ever they are. The bible clearly states ' We are to be able to give a Reason for our aith.'
It also says that noone has an excuise for not worshipping God as creation clearly shows he exists.

Mark.E said:

If I were born in some population-300 town in Mississippi, I'd likely be a Southern Baptist, because my parents would have been too.

If I were born in some village in Pakistan, I'd know nothing but Sunni Islam, because again, my parents/village would have been that way too.

Many people I've met at church are Eastern Orthodox because they were raised in it, others because they converted around my age, later, or even in their late 50's. Even for the converts, they "happened" to encounter this faith.

This is playing out over seven billion times. Religion tends to be something we inherit like accents or property, purely by upbringing. This is unnerving. How can so much of our life and fate hinge on pure happenstance like this? Billions go their lives ignorant of other faiths, let alone whichever one of them might be the "right" one. How are we all expected to find what's right?

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That's because in this life nothing "just happens".
The Bible goes into lots of detail in how everything, from it's very beginning, was created by God, for a very specific purpose, and for a very specific time. Everything and every being was created for a specific purpose that fits in with God's Master Plan.
And to go along with that plan, He also has a way of revealing Himself to every created being, and doing it in such a way that they are aware that there is a God who is higher than themselves.
For example, He created the stars and the planets. He created day and night, He created the Seasons, the weather, the trees, grass, the oceans, fish, apes, cattle, sheep, etc.
All of His creation was by design, and for a purpose: to point mankind back to Himself, and cause him to wonder how all of these different things came to be, and why are they different?
Sooner or later, everyone becomes curious, and want's to know more.
That was planned by God too. God knows everything in our lives, and He knows that at just the right time we will become curious about what happened, how it happened, and if it is still happening.
So God has made sure that there are answers to those questions that will lead people to ask more questions, and that there will also be other people who can answer those questions.
That is one of the reasons that CF exists: to answer those questions about God, and start many people on their lifelong journey to God and to His Son, Jesus Christ.
So you've come to the right place, and found people who can answer those questions right here, e dry day and every hour.
All you have to do is to ask.
We want to thank you for responding to God, and we hope that your time here is filled with the answers to the greatest journey that you will ever undertake in your lifetime:
Finding God.

Mark.E said:

If I were born in some population-300 town in Mississippi, I'd likely be a Southern Baptist, because my parents would have been too.

If I were born in some village in Pakistan, I'd know nothing but Sunni Islam, because again, my parents/village would have been that way too.

Many people I've met at church are Eastern Orthodox because they were raised in it, others because they converted around my age, later, or even in their late 50's. Even for the converts, they "happened" to encounter this faith.

This is playing out over seven billion times. Religion tends to be something we inherit like accents or property, purely by upbringing. This is unnerving. How can so much of our life and fate hinge on pure happenstance like this? Billions go their lives ignorant of other faiths, let alone whichever one of them might be the "right" one. How are we all expected to find what's right?

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"How are we all expected to find what's right?"

by forsaking our own reasoning and to reason with God ...

there is a reason Jacob had steps in his ladder and Jesus ladder did not ...

Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

Mark.E said:

If I were born in some population-300 town in Mississippi, I'd likely be a Southern Baptist, because my parents would have been too.

If I were born in some village in Pakistan, I'd know nothing but Sunni Islam, because again, my parents/village would have been that way too.

Many people I've met at church are Eastern Orthodox because they were raised in it, others because they converted around my age, later, or even in their late 50's. Even for the converts, they "happened" to encounter this faith.

This is playing out over seven billion times. Religion tends to be something we inherit like accents or property, purely by upbringing. This is unnerving. How can so much of our life and fate hinge on pure happenstance like this? Billions go their lives ignorant of other faiths, let alone whichever one of them might be the "right" one. How are we all expected to find what's right?

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Great question!

God meets us where we are.

I think God has given everyone some degree of revelation, he only holds us to the level of revelation that he has given us.

And then also, we all have the ability to seek him further or turn away from him from within that level of revelation.

Mark.E said:

How are we all expected to find what's right?

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You find what is right, by seeking it....similar to what you are doing now....

"7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?"

Mark.E said:

If I were born in some population-300 town in Mississippi, I'd likely be a Southern Baptist, because my parents would have been too.

If I were born in some village in Pakistan, I'd know nothing but Sunni Islam, because again, my parents/village would have been that way too.

Many people I've met at church are Eastern Orthodox because they were raised in it, others because they converted around my age, later, or even in their late 50's. Even for the converts, they "happened" to encounter this faith.

This is playing out over seven billion times. Religion tends to be something we inherit like accents or property, purely by upbringing. This is unnerving. How can so much of our life and fate hinge on pure happenstance like this? Billions go their lives ignorant of other faiths, let alone whichever one of them might be the "right" one. How are we all expected to find what's right?

Click to expand...

True, all research points to worldview being ingrained at an early age. From the cradle, with mother’s breastmilk so to speak. It goes beyond religion, and includes political or racial or cultural views. For example, God being a He. If you are from some parts of India, God could very well be a She.

It’s all relative, there is no absolutes. If we invent a time machine and travel far into our past, before the Abrahamic religions were even formed, we would have totally different worldviews prevalent among people groups in all corners of the world. Things change and will continue to change. Nothing is permanent. Sunni Islam or Evangelical Christianity evolve, too, with the society.

However, there are commonalities among all religions, stemming from us humans being very similar. We are children of Adam and Eve, figuratively speaking. Brothers and sisters. We feel the same things, we want the same things, we are upset or happy about the same things. We ask the same questions and share the same insatiable curiosity about the today and thereafter.

A pop.300 US town, 20 million Chinese megapolis or a village in the Congo. Doesn’t matter. We are all humans.

Mark.E said:

If I were born in some population-300 town in Mississippi, I'd likely be a Southern Baptist, because my parents would have been too.

If I were born in some village in Pakistan, I'd know nothing but Sunni Islam, because again, my parents/village would have been that way too.

Many people I've met at church are Eastern Orthodox because they were raised in it, others because they converted around my age, later, or even in their late 50's. Even for the converts, they "happened" to encounter this faith.

This is playing out over seven billion times. Religion tends to be something we inherit like accents or property, purely by upbringing. This is unnerving. How can so much of our life and fate hinge on pure happenstance like this? Billions go their lives ignorant of other faiths, let alone whichever one of them might be the "right" one. How are we all expected to find what's right?

Click to expand...

Welcome to CF! Jesus Christ of Nazareth tells us to " seek" and the result is finding Him. In my case, I was raised Catholic and learned about Jesus Christ of Nazareth through this institution. Then as I grew older I seeked, sometimes in the wrong places , but finally in the right place. So I guess those that seek Him , Jesus Christ of Nazareth, will find Him if they love Him. Blessings.

Mark.E said:

If I were born in some population-300 town in Mississippi, I'd likely be a Southern Baptist, because my parents would have been too.

If I were born in some village in Pakistan, I'd know nothing but Sunni Islam, because again, my parents/village would have been that way too.

Many people I've met at church are Eastern Orthodox because they were raised in it, others because they converted around my age, later, or even in their late 50's. Even for the converts, they "happened" to encounter this faith.

This is playing out over seven billion times. Religion tends to be something we inherit like accents or property, purely by upbringing. This is unnerving. How can so much of our life and fate hinge on pure happenstance like this? Billions go their lives ignorant of other faiths, let alone whichever one of them might be the "right" one. How are we all expected to find what's right?

Click to expand...

I was born into a family that was not Christian. My father was an angry, bitter atheist. I went to Sunday School as was traditional in those days. It was a convenient child minding service that allowed parents a bit of relief from the kids.

I learned some of the truths about Jesus and stuff. It meant as much to me as the fact that Julius Caesar was emperor of Rome. My father was away a lot due to his occupation. There was zero talk of Christianity at home.

I had a family crisis when I was 12. I'd never prayed, but his time I asked God to intervene. I was shocked and terrified when my prayer was answered. I did my best to dismiss it. Just a coincidence, I said to myself.

8 years later, I had another crisis. Again I prayed to the God that I feared. He answered me differently this time. He had a man in place who preached the gospel to me. I received Christ and I was born again. That was 50 years ago.

The Bible says that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. God has testified to His power and all that He is through the creation. Many have testified to seeking God. Some Muslims find no help in their religion, same goes for Hindus, Buddhists and others. God will always find a way to save such people. I can assure you that if you seek God, you will find Him - because He will find you!

There is no such thing as coincidence. Even you being here and asking questions is God's doing. You have a tremendous opportunity to come to know Jesus and become a new person. It's not a religion. It is a personal relationship with God through Jesus. No religion has relationship with God. No religion offers forgiveness of sin. Only in Jesus can we know forgiveness and restoration to the God who loves us.

Aussie Pete said:

I was born into a family that was not Christian. My father was an angry, bitter atheist. I went to Sunday School as was traditional in those days. It was a convenient child minding service that allowed parents a bit of relief from the kids.

I learned some of the truths about Jesus and stuff. It meant as much to me as the fact that Julius Caesar was emperor of Rome. My father was away a lot due to his occupation. There was zero talk of Christianity at home.

I had a family crisis when I was 12. I'd never prayed, but his time I asked God to intervene. I was shocked and terrified when my prayer was answered. I did my best to dismiss it. Just a coincidence, I said to myself.

8 years later, I had another crisis. Again I prayed to the God that I feared. He answered me differently this time. He had a man in place who preached the gospel to me. I received Christ and I was born again. That was 50 years ago.

The Bible says that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. God has testified to His power and all that He is through the creation. Many have testified to seeking God. Some Muslims find no help in their religion, same goes for Hindus, Buddhists and others. God will always find a way to save such people. I can assure you that if you seek God, you will find Him - because He will find you!

There is no such thing as coincidence. Even you being here and asking questions is God's doing. You have a tremendous opportunity to come to know Jesus and become a new person. It's not a religion. It is a personal relationship with God through Jesus. No religion has relationship with God. No religion offers forgiveness of sin. Only in Jesus can we know forgiveness and restoration to the God who loves us.

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Past 2000 years were a blink of an eye if we take the entirety of human history. How about Zoroaster, druids, priestesses of Athena etc? People believed in many different things and still do. Take Asia for example. It’s mostly non-Christian. My grandparents had no idea who Jesus was.

Thousands of years ago people prayed to Zeus and their prayers were answered not as a coincidence as well?

Mark.E said:

If I were born in some population-300 town in Mississippi, I'd likely be a Southern Baptist, because my parents would have been too.

If I were born in some village in Pakistan, I'd know nothing but Sunni Islam, because again, my parents/village would have been that way too.

Many people I've met at church are Eastern Orthodox because they were raised in it, others because they converted around my age, later, or even in their late 50's. Even for the converts, they "happened" to encounter this faith.

This is playing out over seven billion times. Religion tends to be something we inherit like accents or property, purely by upbringing. This is unnerving. How can so much of our life and fate hinge on pure happenstance like this? Billions go their lives ignorant of other faiths, let alone whichever one of them might be the "right" one. How are we all expected to find what's right?

Click to expand...

God has given us His moral law as St. Paul testifies in Romans 2. Examples of keeping this are even found in a few places in the Old Testament ( for ex. Psalms 15, Ezekiel 18:4-9, etc.). I believe these laws of conscience & the heart are traced to the law given to Noah ( Genesis 9:1-17).

Mark.E said:

If I were born in some population-300 town in Mississippi, I'd likely be a Southern Baptist, because my parents would have been too.

If I were born in some village in Pakistan, I'd know nothing but Sunni Islam, because again, my parents/village would have been that way too.

Many people I've met at church are Eastern Orthodox because they were raised in it, others because they converted around my age, later, or even in their late 50's. Even for the converts, they "happened" to encounter this faith.

This is playing out over seven billion times. Religion tends to be something we inherit like accents or property, purely by upbringing. This is unnerving. How can so much of our life and fate hinge on pure happenstance like this? Billions go their lives ignorant of other faiths, let alone whichever one of them might be the "right" one. How are we all expected to find what's right?

Click to expand...

That's one of the reasons why I believe in reincarnation even though I know it's not a part of Christian doctrine. There are people who are raised in abusive homes with their minds broken so much to the point where they CAN'T choose God or even reach out to God. People are shaped 90% by where and when they were born. Some people are able to rise above but most don't. I believe reincarnation fits within God's plan. We need Jesus for our salvation, but some people are cut off from even knowing about Him so they are unable to reach out to Him.

Skye1300 said:

That's one of the reasons why I believe in reincarnation even though I know it's not a part of Christian doctrine. There are people who are raised in abusive homes with their minds broken so much to the point where they CAN'T choose God or even reach out to God. People are shaped 90% by where and when they were born. Some people are able to rise above but most don't. I believe reincarnation fits within God's plan. We need Jesus for our salvation, but some people are cut off from even knowing about Him so they are unable to reach out to Him.

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I think you will find that the theology of the Catholic Church allows for salvation of people who were never exposed to the Gospel.

And that is w

Skye1300 said:

That's one of the reasons why I believe in reincarnation even though I know it's not a part of Christian doctrine. There are people who are raised in abusive homes with their minds broken so much to the point where they CAN'T choose God or even reach out to God. People are shaped 90% by where and when they were born. Some people are able to rise above but most don't. I believe reincarnation fits within God's plan. We need Jesus for our salvation, but some people are cut off from even knowing about Him so they are unable to reach out to Him.

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And that is why God created the Universe first, and then He created everything in it.
And finally, He created man and woman.
With each step, God revealed something about Himself.
But in making His last creation, mankind, He put the key: Christ.

I don't think it is as simple as you are what you were raised to be. If that was true we wouldn't be seeing a decline in Christianity in the U.S. while it is growing in traditional non-Christian countries. And obviously it has grown from nothing to the largest religion in the world over its lifetime, this couldn't have happened if people had just been following their parents religions.

Personally I was raised an atheist and became a Christian as an adult. I have also encountered a number of other Christians, who weren't raised in Christian households. I don't think this is as rare as people often assume. One source says about 30% to 50% of Christians come from non-Christian backgrounds. (I'm assuming this is a world wide number.)

Yes, and a good deal of those conversions happen because of missionaries in Third World countries, as well as street preachers here in the USA.

jacks said:

I don't think it is as simple as you are what you were raised to be. If that was true we wouldn't be seeing a decline in Christianity in the U.S. while it is growing in traditional non-Christian countries. And obviously it has grown from nothing to the largest religion in the world over its lifetime, this couldn't have happened if people had just been following their parents religions.

Personally I was raised an atheist and became a Christian as an adult. I have also encountered a number of other Christians, who weren't raised in Christian households. I don't think this is as rare as people often assume. One source says about 30% to 50% of Christians come from non-Christian backgrounds. (I'm assuming this is a world wide number.)

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