Ha! How can a god exist!

[ClueMeIn]

My dear aunt has died of cancer, my brother was killed in a car wreck, and I have an acute form of leprosy. How can some loving god exist? It can't! All of the suffering on this planet is because some higher being loves me? Ha! Again, ha! Anyone who believes this has lost his sanity.

 

[Screamin'Eagle]

My dear aunt has died of cancer, my brother was killed in a car wreck, and I have an acute form of leprosy. How can some loving god exist? It can't! All of the suffering on this planet is because some higher being loves me? Ha! Again, ha! Anyone who believes this has lost his sanity.

Many people have horrible things happen to them...some aren't fair but that doesnt prove that G-d doesnt exist. Trial by fire...I've gone through things that you havent gone through. Everyone has gone through something, and it makes you a stronger/better person if you can make it through. Im telling you right now you are a better person than I am for going through what you have endured and still moving forward. I couldn't do it. Im not saying its fair but things like this can better you as a person if you allow them to, as hard as it may be to believe.

 

[Breaking Babylon]

"I asked God to spare me pain, and God said 'No. Suffering draws you apart from earthly desires and brings you nigh unto Me.'"

"I asked God to make my suffering child whole, and God said 'No. Her spirit is already whole, the body is only temporary.'"

The absense of evidence isn't the evidence of absence.

There's been suffering on this planet since the Fall. There will be suffering on this planet until the End. This isn't the place of perfection or happiness, this is the preparation.

Suffering brings patience, and patience brings hope.

I'd also like to point out that there is more to God than the Sunday school approach. We often think of humble, meek, and lowly savior of our souls Jesus Christ, with rich mercy and longsuffering -- we often forget Christ the Judge; Christ the Lion of Judah, Christ who chased wicked men from the temple with cords.

I am content in knowing that He chastizes those whom He loves. I'm also content in knowing that while bearing this cross, I can't expect to share in His glory if I've never shared in His sufferings.

 

[ClueMeIn]

Of course, as I said earlier, the sanity comment. There has not always been disease. Only since there was life, and cells become deformed, break down, and this is because life is different than inanimate objects. It breaks down, "dies", as some say, and it ends. There is no afterward. What proof do you have? None! Yet there is proof that things "die". There is proof of H2O, Oxygen, and the hole in the Ozone. Yet is there a single shred of truth behind the Christian facade? No!

 

[JF5000]

My dear aunt has died of cancer, my brother was killed in a car wreck, and I have an acute form of leprosy. How can some loving god exist? It can't! All of the suffering on this planet is because some higher being loves me? Ha! Again, ha! Anyone who believes this has lost his sanity.

TO many minds the origin of sin and the reason for its existence are a source of great perplexity. They see the work of evil, with its terrible results of woe and desolation, and they question how all this can exist under the sovereignty of One who is infinite in wisdom, in power, and in love. Here is a mystery of which they find no explanation. And in their uncertainty and doubt they are blinded to truths plainly revealed in God's word and essential to salvation. There are those who, in their inquiries concerning the existence of sin, endeavor to search into that which God has never revealed; hence they find no solution of their difficulties; and such as are actuated by a disposition to doubt and cavil seize upon this as an excuse for rejecting the words of Holy Writ. Others, however, fail of a satisfactory understanding of the great problem of evil, from the fact that tradition and misinterpretation have obscured the teaching of the Bible concerning the character of God, the nature of His government, and the principles of His dealing with sin.
It is impossible to explain the origin of sin so as to give a reason for its existence. Yet enough may be understood concerning both the origin and the final disposition of sin to make fully manifest the justice and benevolence of God in all His dealings with evil. Nothing is more plainly taught in Scripture than that God was in no wise responsible for the entrance of sin; that there was no arbitrary withdrawal of divine grace, no deficiency in the divine government, that gave occasion for the uprising of rebellion. Sin is an intruder, for whose presence no reason can be given. It is mysterious, unaccountable; to excuse it is to defend it. Could excuse for it be found, or cause be shown for its existence, it would cease to be sin. Our only definition of sin is that given in the word of God; it is "the transgression of the law;" it is the outworking of a principle at war with the great law of love which is the foundation of the divine government.
Before the entrance of evil there was peace and joy throughout the universe. All was in perfect harmony with the Creator's will. Love for God was supreme, love for one another impartial. Christ the Word, the Only Begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,--one in nature, in character, and in purpose,--the only being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ the Father wrought in the creation of all heavenly beings. "By Him were all things created, that are in heaven, . . . whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers" (Colossians 1:16); and to Christ, equally with the Father, all heaven gave allegiance.
The law of love being the foundation of the government of God, the happiness of all created beings depended upon their perfect accord with its great principles of righteousness. God desires from all His creatures the service of love--homage that springs from an intelligent appreciation of His character. He takes no pleasure in a forced allegiance, and to all He grants freedom of will, that they may render Him voluntary service.
But there was one that chose to pervert this freedom. Sin originated with him who, next to Christ, had been most honored of God and who stood highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven. Before his fall, Lucifer was first of the covering cherubs, holy and undefiled. "Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering. . . .Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." Ezekiel 28:12-15.
Lucifer might have remained in favor with God, beloved and honored by all the angelic host, exercising his noble powers to bless others and to glorify his Maker. But, says the prophet, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness." Verse 17. Little by little, Lucifer came to indulge a desire for self-exaltation. "Thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God." "Thou hast said, . . . I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation....I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High." Verse 6; Isaiah 14:13, 14. Instead of seeking to make God supreme in the affections and allegiance of His creatures, it was Lucifer's endeavor to win their service and homage to himself. And coveting the honor which the infinite Father had bestowed upon His Son, this prince of angels aspired to power which it was the prerogative of Christ alone to wield.
All heaven had rejoiced to reflect the Creator's glory and to show forth His praise. And while God was thus honored, all had been peace and gladness. But a note of discord now marred the celestial harmonies. The service and exaltation of self, contrary to the Creator's plan, awakened forebodings of evil in minds to whom God's glory was supreme. The heavenly councils pleaded with Lucifer. The Son of God presented before him the greatness, the goodness, and the justice of the Creator, and the sacred, unchanging nature of His law. God Himself had established the order of heaven; and in departing from it, Lucifer would dishonor his Maker, and bring ruin upon himself. But the warning, given in infinite love and mercy, only aroused a spirit of resistance. Lucifer allowed jealousy of Christ to prevail, and he became the more determined.
Pride in his own glory nourished the desire for supremacy. The high honors conferred upon Lucifer were not appreciated as the gift of God and called forth no gratitude to the Creator. He gloried in his brightness and exaltation, and aspired to be equal with God. He was beloved and reverenced by the heavenly host. Angels delighted to execute his commands, and he was clothed with wisdom and glory above them all. Yet the Son of God was the acknowledged Sovereign of heaven, one in power and authority with the Father. In all the councils of God, Christ was a participant, while Lucifer was not permitted thus to enter into the divine purposes. "Why," questioned this mighty angel, "should Christ have the supremacy? Why is He thus honored above Lucifer?"
Leaving his place in the immediate presence of God, Lucifer went forth to diffuse the spirit of discontent among the angels. Working with mysterious secrecy, and for a time concealing his real purpose under an appearance of reverence for God, he endeavored to excite dissatisfaction concerning the laws that governed heavenly beings, intimating that they imposed an unnecessary restraint. Since their natures were holy, he urged that the angels should obey the dictates of their own will. He sought to create sympathy for himself by representing that God had dealt unjustly with him in bestowing supreme honor upon Christ. He claimed that in aspiring to greater power and honor he was not aiming at self-exaltation, but was seeking to secure liberty for all the inhabitants of heaven, that by this means they might attain to a higher state of existence.
God in His great mercy bore long with Lucifer. He was not immediately degraded from his exalted station when he first indulged the spirit of discontent, nor even when he began to present his false claims before the loyal angels. Long was he retained in heaven. Again and again he was offered pardon on condition of repentance and submission. Such efforts as only infinite love and wisdom could devise were made to convince him of his error. The spirit of discontent had never before been known in heaven. Lucifer himself did not at first see whither he was drifting; he did not understand the real nature of his feelings. But as his dissatisfaction was proved to be without cause, Lucifer was convinced that he was in the wrong, that the divine claims were just, and that he ought to acknowledge them as such before all heaven. Had he done this, he might have saved himself and many angels. He had not at this time fully cast off his allegiance to God. Though he had forsaken his position as covering cherub, yet if he had been willing to return to God, acknowledging the Creator's wisdom, and satisfied to fill the place appointed him in God's great plan, he would have been reinstated in his office. But pride forbade him to submit. He persistently defended his own course, maintained that he had no need of repentance, and fully committed himself, in the great controversy, against his Maker.
All the powers of his master mind were now bent to the work of deception, to secure the sympathy of the angels that had been under his command. Even the fact that Christ had warned and counseled him was perverted to serve his traitorous designs. To those whose loving trust bound them most closely to him, Satan had represented that he was wrongly judged, that his position was not respected, and that his liberty was to be abridged. From misrepresentation of the words of Christ he passed to prevarication and direct falsehood, accusing the Son of God of a design to humiliate him before the inhabitants of heaven. He sought also to make a false issue between himself and the loyal angels. All whom he could not subvert and bring fully to his side he accused of indifference to the interests of heavenly beings. The very work which he himself was doing he charged upon those who remained true to God. And to sustain his charge of God's injustice toward him, he resorted to misrepresentation of the words and acts of the Creator. It was his policy to perplex the angels with subtle arguments concerning the purposes of God. Everything that was simple he shrouded in mystery, and by artful perversion cast doubt upon the plainest statements of Jehovah. His high position, in such close connection with the divine administration, gave greater force to his representations, and many were induced to unite with him in rebellion against Heaven's authority.
God in His wisdom permitted Satan to carry forward his work, until the spirit of disaffection ripened into active revolt. It was necessary for his plans to be fully developed, that their true nature and tendency might be seen by all. Lucifer, as the anointed cherub, had been highly exalted; he was greatly loved by the heavenly beings, and his influence over them was strong. God's government included not only the inhabitants of heaven, but of all the worlds that He had created; and Satan thought that if he could carry the angels of heaven with him in rebellion, he could carry also the other worlds. He had artfully presented his side of the question, employing sophistry and fraud to secure his objects. His power to deceive was very great, and by disguising himself in a cloak of falsehood he had gained an advantage. Even the loyal angels could not fully discern his character or see to what his work was leading.
Satan had been so highly honored, and all his acts were so clothed with mystery, that it was difficult to disclose to the angels the true nature of his work. Until fully developed, sin would not appear the evil thing it was. Heretofore it had had no place in the universe of God, and holy beings had no conception of its nature and malignity. They could not discern the terrible consequences that would result from setting aside the divine law. Satan had, at first, concealed his work under a specious profession of loyalty to God. He claimed to be seeking to promote the honor of God, the stability of His government, and the good of all the inhabitants of heaven. While instilling discontent into the minds of the angels under him, he had artfully made it appear that he was seeking to remove dissatisfaction. When he urged that changes be made in the order and laws of God's government, it was under the pretense that these were necessary in order to preserve harmony in heaven.
In His dealing with sin, God could employ only righteousness and truth. Satan could use what God could not-- flattery and deceit. He had sought to falsify the word of God and had misrepresented His plan of government before the angels, claiming that God was not just in laying laws and rules upon the inhabitants of heaven; that in requiring submission and obedience from His creatures, He was seeking merely the exaltation of Himself. Therefore it must be demonstrated before the inhabitants of heaven, as well as of all the worlds, that God's government was just, His law perfect. Satan had made it appear that he himself was seeking to promote the good of the universe. The true character of the usurper, and his real object, must be understood by all. He must have time to manifest himself by his wicked works.
The discord which his own course had caused in heaven, Satan charged upon the law and government of God. All evil he declared to be the result of the divine administration. He claimed that it was his own object to improve upon the statutes of Jehovah. Therefore it was necessary that he should demonstrate the nature of his claims, and show the working out of his proposed changes in the divine law. His own work must condemn him. Satan had claimed from the first that he was not in rebellion. The whole universe must see the deceiver unmasked.
[FONT=&quot]Even when it was decided that he could no longer remain in heaven, Infinite Wisdom did not destroy Satan. Since the service of love can alone be acceptable to God, the allegiance of His creatures must rest upon a conviction of His justice and benevolence. The inhabitants of heaven and of other worlds, being unprepared to comprehend the nature or consequences of sin, could not then have seen the justice and mercy of God in the destruction of Satan. Had he been immediately blotted from existence, they would have served God from fear rather than from love. The influence of the deceiver would not have been fully destroyed, nor would the spirit of rebellion have been utterly eradicated. Evil must be permitted to come to maturity. For the good of the entire universe through ceaseless ages Satan must more fully develop his principles, that his charges against the divine government might be seen in their true light by all [/FONT]

 

[ClueMeIn]

Of course there is no explanation, because there is no proof!

 

[MikeMcK]

My dear aunt has died of cancer, my brother was killed in a car wreck, and I have an acute form of leprosy. How can some loving god exist? It can't!

I'm sorry for your troubles.

It may interest you to know that back in the mid-eighties, my family lost nine people in a little over a year, including my father and grandmother (one to cancer, one to heart disease), a much loved aunt (cancer), a cousin whom I was very close to (AIDS), and my sisters' fiancee (car crash).

It was through a series of events surrounding my dad's fight with cancer that he, my step-brother and I all became Christians.

All of the suffering on this planet is because some higher being loves me? Ha! Again, ha! Anyone who believes this has lost his sanity.

You're right. That doesn't make much sense, does it? It's also not what the Bible teaches.

The Bible tells us that God created the world to be perfect and created us to fellowship with Him.

In order that we could build loving and nurturing relationships with one another and with Him, He gave us free will.

However, people decided to misuse His gift of free will to rebel against Him and serve their own pride. As a result of this, sin entered into the world and we are still suffering the consequences of sin, including death, illness, natural disasters and all sorts of inhumanity toward men.

The good news is that God loves us too much to leave us in this predicament and has given His son so that death and Hell and sin would be defeated.

Jesus defeated sin at the cross and death when He walked out of the grave. The Bible goes on to tell us that He is coming again to make right what sin took away.

Bad things don't happen to people because God is not good. Bad things happen to people because they live in a bad world.

This is why Jesus told us, "In this world you will have sorrows but, Behold! I have overcome the world".

 

[Calminian]

My dear aunt has died of cancer, my brother was killed in a car wreck, and I have an acute form of leprosy. How can some loving god exist? It can't! All of the suffering on this planet is because some higher being loves me? Ha! Again, ha! Anyone who believes this has lost his sanity.

God never promised a world without suffering. But He does promise an end to it, if you'll trust Him. The suffering on earth is a glimpse of Hell, just as pleasure on earth is a glimpse of heaven. God uses these things to draw us to Him. It's for our sake, that we might avoid eternal suffering.

Regarding suffering, Paul said this. A bit of a long quote but rich and worth reading. Hope it helps.

Rom. 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will. 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. 31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all — how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died — more than that, who was raised to life — is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[ClueMeIn]

Why defeat something (a hell) when it already doesn't exist?

 

[ClueMeIn]

You contradicted yourself! Your bible says that God made a perfect world, Calminin! A world without suffering! I know more about that book than you do, obviously.

 

[Breaking Babylon]

Of course, as I said earlier, the sanity comment. There has not always been disease. Only since there was life, and cells become deformed, break down, and this is because life is different than inanimate objects. It breaks down, "dies", as some say, and it ends. There is no afterward. What proof do you have? None! Yet there is proof that things "die". There is proof of H2O, Oxygen, and the hole in the Ozone. Yet is there a single shred of truth behind the Christian facade? No!

I have no proof that you could understand.

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

"But we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the wisdom that has been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds for our glory, which none of the rulers of this world has known. For had they known it, they wouldn't have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written, "Things which an eye didn't see, and an ear didn't hear, which didn't enter into the heart of man, these God has prepared for those who love him. But to us, God revealed them through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God."

"Now the natural man doesn't receive the things of God's Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, and he can't know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

- Excerpts from Paul's Epistle to the Corinthians, Chapter 2.

To know of God, you must first know God. You won't find Him by pondering, or through pseudo-intelligent pursuits of logic or what you deem to be rationality.

God is not found through the mind, He is found through the heart -- the pursuit of God for His glory, by reaching out from a contrite, humble heart, is a pursuit that isn't in vain. Searching with hard-heartedness, science, and an air of nihilism? You're better off staying where you are.

 

[ClueMeIn]

So how do I "soften" my "heart", Christian?

 

[MikeMcK]

Why defeat something (a hell) when it already doesn't exist?

God says that it does exist. I would think He'd know, since He's the one who created it.

 

[ClueMeIn]

So god created a hell for those he hates? Interesting.

 

[MikeMcK]

So god created a hell for those he hates? Interesting.

No. God created Hell for the Devil and his angels, and for those people who choose to serve sin.

You seem to be awfully hostile to people who have been pretty polite to you, so far.

Did you come here to ask a question? To ask us what Christianity teaches? Or did you come here to make some sort of a statement about how lousy God is?

I've got to go work on tomorrow AM's sermon, but take some time tonight to think about the spirit you're posting in here.

 

[Breaking Babylon]

So how do I "soften" my "heart", Christian?

You can't start by scoffing, friend. Neither can you begin with hostility.

I'm only here to point it out. As they say, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." It's in your hands. Just now, you can't say you were never told.

Your manner of posting reminds me of a common delusion I see so much. People claim so highly not to believe in God, yet spend so much time hating Him. If that isn't spiritual delusion, I don't know what is.

 

[AJB4]

OK peeps, here's a few thoughts:

Reasons to Believe in A God Who Allows Suffering:

1.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It (the Bible) teaches that a world without choice would be worse than a world without pain – Gen.2:15-17.
“The Lord God commanded the man saying, ‘ From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die.”

2.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It teaches that a world without ‘choice with consequences’, would lead us away from good and from God – Gal.6:7, Ps.78:34-35.
“ Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whtever a man sows, this he will
also reap.”
“When He killed them, then they sought Him, And returned and searched diligently for God; And they remembered that God was their rock, and the most High God their redeemer.”

3.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It teaches us that suffering can have a positive result through character development –I Pet.1:7.
“..that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even thought tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honour at the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

4.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It teaches us of our need to look beyond the temporary, to the eternal – II Corin.4:16-18.
“Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day. For momentary light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things that are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.”

5.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It teaches us that we are on a journey, and preparation for our departure from this life is as necessary as breathing or eating – Eccl.12:1-14.
“Remember Him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is
crushed..”

-2-​

6.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It teaches us of our need to trust God, no matter what our life circumstance – I Tim.4:10, I Cor. 10:13.
“For it is for this that we labour and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, ..”
“No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and Gos is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, that you may be able to endure it.”

7.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It teaches us that when we suffer, He understands and suffers with us – Heb.4:15.
“For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.”

8.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It teaches us that when we reach the end of our ‘self trust’, we reach the beginning of God – I Pet.4:1-2.
“Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.”

9.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It teaches us that Gods comfort is greater than our suffering – II Corin.12:9-10.
“And he said to me, ‘ My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.’ Most glady, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may dwell in me. Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecuations, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.”

10.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT] It teaches us of the need for each other – II Corin.1:3-4.
“Blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort; who comforts us in all our affliction so that we may be able to comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.”

11.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT] It teaches us that what we often interpret to be ‘bad’ can work out in the long
run, to be ‘good’ – Rom.8:28, Gen.50:20.
“And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those
who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.”
“And as for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good on
order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.”

12.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT] It teaches us that all ‘suffering’ must ultimately be laid at the feet of the ‘devil’, ourselves or others – James 1:12-17.
“Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘ I am being tempted

- 3 -​

by God’; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my brethren. Every good thing bestowed and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation, or shifting shadow.”

13.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It teaches us that in this world, we will always have suffering – John 16:33.
“..In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the
world.”

14.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]But most importantly, it teaches us that from the suffering of Christ, came the
possibility of salvation for all – I Pet.2:24.
“..and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to
sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.”

 

[ERice2nd]

Find God or not find God, the choice is yours. If you dont wish to find God then you will never find him, if you choose to find God then he will show himself to you. It HAS to be genuine interest to find God though.

To many atheists want proof of God, sounds like they want to believe, they just dont know how. Like BlakeMichael says, you cant say you have never been told. God is there, like it or not, I have had my proof. I believed and God revealed himself to me many times.

As I said in another post, only God can prove he exists, Christians can only point you in the right direction.

 

[AJB4]

As I said in another post, only God can prove he exists, Christians can only point you in the right direction.

That's exactly right. God only can prove he exists, to those who want to believe, but we Christians just have to put in the good word for him

 

[Breaking Babylon]

I agree entirely, ERice2nd.

Notice how ERice2nd put it: I believed, and, God revealed Himself to me many times. Did God reveal Himself to him before he believed? No. That's not how it works.

I believe it was Hebrews 11:9 which said "It is impossible to please God without faith."