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Blackguard_

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Don't forget counting on the benevolance of the people robbing you is simply foolish. (in response to what what ostrich said about lack of break-in murders) Sure, the odds may be low, but why risk it?

Gangmemembers shooting eachother as a result of widespread availbality of guns, is frankly, a price I'm willing to pay. It's not like they'd less murderous with bats and wrenchs and sections of pipe.


What is the police presence in this city then? Any campus security? Sounds like there is no law and order where you are...possibly due to gun proliferation???

Do you have cops on every corner in Canada or something?

But seriously, the "gun" problem in the USA is actually a gang and drug problem, caused by the War on Drugs. Just like the Prohibtion of alcohol lead to the the rise of a violent Mob from the illicit trade, so did the prohibition of drugs.
 
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Suomipoika

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Don't tell me you beleive killing in self defense or of others is wrong?

Well, if no-one else will tell you killing in self defense is not right then I will. OR, in a self defense situation where you drew a gun, would you think "what would Jesus do" and then aim at the heart and gladly blow a lethal shot?

In our capital most kids still walk or bike their way to school, at least in the suburbian area. So I guess I'm not the right person to make firts-hand experience comments about gun control in the States.
 
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Blackguard_

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Well, if no-one else will tell you killing in self defense is not right then I will. OR, in a self defense situation where you drew a gun, would you think "what would Jesus do" and then aim at the heart and gladly blow a lethal shot?

That's a crazy question. Am I omnipotent, or allnowing? Are you? I can't know or do what Jesus would have done. "what would Jesus have me do" is a much better question, and yes, he would have me kill the guy if necessary.

What would Jesus do? Remember, submitting to crucifixion was part of a plan and not out of pacifism.

I can't fast talk my way out of everything, I can't magically disapear him or disarm him or knock him out or put a magic force field around him or us. I don't command legions of angels.

We mortals simply cannot know much less are able to act how Jesus would act.

But since you will probably reagrd that all as some sort of "cop-out", Jesus in Luke 22:36 tells his disciples to aquire swords, and when Peter takes a swing at the high priests servant Jesus tells him to put it away (note: not to get rid of it) because fighting would wreck the plan of crucifixion.

Why would Jesus tell his disciples to get swords if he forbade their use?

Why is self defense wrong? is my attackers life worth more than mine? If it comes down to "him or me", why should be me? And no, all life is not sacred or of equal value or some similar hogwash.

In our capital most kids still walk or bike their way to school, at least in the suburbian area.
What do you think the USA is, a Post-Apocalyptic warzone?
Kids walk and bike to school here too, and not just in the capital city.

So I guess I'm not the right person to make firts-hand experience comments about gun control in the States.

No. America is not like the place portrayed in Hollywood action films or wherever you get these ideas from.
 
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Suomipoika

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O-kayyyy...


http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/25900/eVerseID/25903

I think on that page you can find a pretty good exposition on Luke 22:35-38

No, I'm not saying that self-defense is wrong. And I'm not a super naive pacifist by ideology. I've served in the military myself (sending weather balloons into the air). But yes, I think I am seriously questioning your "not all (human) life is equal in value" attitude. And if you were in that situation where you'd have to use a gun for self defense, you wouldn't really aim at the guy's heart very eagerly, would you? In a war the authorities would probably make you kill (yes, the idea of that doesn't make me feel very good), but in a "dual" self-defense situation you could decide whether to try to kill or just to injure the attacker (in case a flight is no longer an option). Why does it have to be me? Well, why does "it" have to be either one?


What do you think the USA is, a Post-Apocalyptic warzone?
Kids walk and bike to school here too, and not just in the capital city.


No. America is not like the place portrayed in Hollywood action films or wherever you get these ideas from.

No, I do get information about America from many other sources than Hollywood movies (I seldom watch Hollywood action films). I try to do so to be able to paint a realistic picture. One way to get info is statistics.

And when it comes down to crime,
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/8Comparison.htm
here you can find for one thing how the U.S. compared with Finland back in 1991. To pick a few crime-related figures from that survey:

Murder rate (per 100,00 people): US 8.40, Finland 0.70. Rape (per 100,000 people): US 37.20, Finland 7.20. Armed robbery (per 100,00 people): US 221, Finland: 38

And by contrast, percent of households with a handgun: US 29%, Finland 7%.

I know the crime rate in Finland has increased a little since 1991, but still you get the big picture. So without using exaggerated rhetorics about a "post-apocalyptic warzone", facts about crime rate speak their own language. There is quite a common picture among people here about American parents driving their kids to and from school in the fear of drive-by shooters and other crazies. That kind of pictures might, of course, get some extra baggage on their way over the Atlantic ocean and might get a little excessive. Whatever the truth about that is, it certainly doesn't keep me from hoping to come to America sometime in the near future. I know I would really enjoy spending some time there.

And I'm not trying to say that there has to be correlation between the crime rate figures and the gun ownership figures. When I said "I'm not the right person to make firts-hand experience comments about gun control in the States", I was saying that I understand that Americans might feel a bigger need to own a gun than Finns because of a higher crime rate, and that at least this feeling as a consequence of a bigger crime rate would be justified. What the reasons for the bigger crime rates in the first place are is another question. At least Finland's a rather sparsely populated and demographically homogenous country with little history of the 'gang culture'. But things have been changing here, too.
 
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Tuffguy

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So guns are perfect for situations where you need to protect yourself against bears, but bad to protect yourself agaists people? LOL Thats some sweet logic.
 
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Blackguard_

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I think on that page you can find a pretty good exposition on Luke 22:35-38

It was, until it tried explaining away the recommendation sword as physical at all, saying to "just rely on God".

I wonder if this guy thinks it wrong to have a job to get food and such and take medicine to combat disease? Relying on God doesn't mean having to ignore 'earthly' means. God often works through the earthly means.

No, I'm not saying that self-defense is wrong. And I'm not a super naive pacifist by ideology. I've served in the military myself (sending weather balloons into the air).

The "non-lethal self-defense only" view? That's what I thought you were,( I know many people anti-killing in self defense don't support meek submission either) I just slip up sometimes and just write "self defense" when I should write "kill in self defense" or something along those lines.

But yes, I think I am seriously questioning your "not all (human) life is equal in value" attitude.
Ok then, how is all life of equal value?

And if you were in that situation where you'd have to use a gun for self defense, you wouldn't really aim at the guy's heart very eagerly, would you?
Eagerly in the sense of enjoying it, no. Eager to stop the guy, yes.

In a war the authorities would probably make you kill
No, our military is all-voluntary, although that can change. And strictly speaking, tehy can't make you kill, just throw you in jail and such if you don't.

(yes, the idea of that doesn't make me feel very good),
Doesn't make me feel very good either.

but in a "dual" self-defense situation you could decide whether to try to kill or just to injure the attacker (in case a flight is no longer an option).

Dual self-defense? You mean a fight? And how would I necessarily have a choice of only injuring? Especially if my opponent is a better fighter?

Why does it have to be me? Well, why does "it" have to be either one?

Because the means for it to be "both" don't always exist or aren't available to me hence it coming down to "him or me".

Sure, there are plenty of situation where it can be "both", but there are plenty where that is not possible too. I'm not advocation lethal self-defense only.
 
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What is the police presence in this city then? Any campus security? Sounds like there is no law and order where you are...possibly due to gun proliferation???

They don't post armed officers in the common rooms of every floor of every dorm. Perhaps that is what it would take. But the police can't help me if an attacker is already in my room.

I'll say it once again. Making it illegal to own a gun only puts law abiding citizens at a disadvantage. Under that scenario if a criminal wanted to get a gun, he/she could still get a gun. If a law abiding citizen wanted a gun to protect themselves against those criminals, they'd have to become criminals themselves to do it. Law abiding citizens aren't breaking into homes and putting people at gun point.

As soon as they manage to take the weapons away from criminals, I'll gladly give up mine. I'm personally sick of hearing campus rape stories. It won't happen to me. I'm prepared, because I have the tools and the training to know what to do, and I'll never have to break the law to do it. It is unfortunate that other women (and people in general) are against self defense. Sorry to break it to some of you, but unarmed self defense classes are just not enough in most situations.
 
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Sketcher

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I was assuming you were talking about a point blank holdup in both situations. And as for the softie, anybody knows that a shot to the head is a lot deadlier than one to the body. He'd aim low.

Gun proliferation can't be stopped by legislation alone, since there is an underground market. It's very easy to get an illegal firearm on the streets if you're in a gang or a drug ring. Making guns illegal in the city will only disarm the people that want to protect themselves from the robbers and the dealers.

Well, if no-one else will tell you killing in self defense is not right then I will. OR, in a self defense situation where you drew a gun, would you think "what would Jesus do" and then aim at the heart and gladly blow a lethal shot?
Does Finland have conscription? If so, do you agree with it? And if you do, how is that consistent at all with what you just said?
 
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Tenorvoice

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Gun Control is using both hands IMO.

Also Guns do not kill people, people kill people, the only thing that changes is the "tools" that are used.

The government can have my guns, when they pry them from my cold dead fingers.

If people are brought up around them, taught how to handle them, and that they can be dangerous, then we would see less "accidents" in the homes. It all boils down to the person that owns them.
 
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intricatic

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Mohandas K. Gandhi: "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn." Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth, Chapter XXVII, Recruiting Campaign, Page 403, Dover paperback edition, 1983.
 
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Blackguard_

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I know the crime rate in Finland has increased a little since 1991, but still you get the big picture. So without using exaggerated rhetorics about a "post-apocalyptic warzone", facts about crime rate speak their own language.

There is quite a common picture among people here about American parents driving their kids to and from school in the fear of drive-by shooters and other crazies.
I've never heard of anyone doing. I wouldn't doubt it happens though, but it's much much more likely to be out of fear of the kids being kipnapped by a creepy old man with a rusty windowless van than being shot. That's not a likely occurance or anything either, our media is just very good at scaring "soccer moms", which is part of why we have pushes for gun control.

Heck, given our car crash rates, it's probably more dangerous to drive your kids to school.

Also, I don't know what people over there think a drive-by shooting is, but it's a targeted shooting of gangmembers at other gangmembers, they aren't people driving around shooting pedestrians for kicks. Granted, the tendency of gang members to be horrible shots (made worse by their habit of shooting sideways) means they can be dangerous to bystanders.

That kind of pictures might, of course, get some extra baggage on their way over the Atlantic ocean and might get a little excessive.
You can say that again.


Whatever the truth about that is, it certainly doesn't keep me from hoping to come to America sometime in the near future. I know I would really enjoy spending some time there.

Good to here. Where do you plan on going?

That's something both sides of the gun debate need to realize. A bunch of guns is not going to automatically raise/lower crime. I think it's a cultural thing, as lack of guns is not going to make a vicious person civil or the other way around.

At least Finland's a rather sparsely populated and demographically homogenous country with little history of the 'gang culture'. But things have been changing here, too.

America has sparsely populated areas of European level crime to. Part of the problem with the stats you cite is that conditions are very different across America.

For example, South Dakota has European level murder rates (roughly 2/100000) and probably has more than the national average of gun ownership rates.

looking at the link you gave, Finland has a murder rate of 0.7 with a 7% handgun rate, while the UK has a murder rate of 1.97 /100K and a handgun rate of 1%, and Germany with the same handgun rate as Finland has a murder rate of 4.2/100k. It seems clear "availablity of guns, especially handguns", is not the cause of higher murder rates.

I ownder why you guys have such a low murder rate even for Europe?
"Sparsely populated" doesn't seem an answer, as it has a much higher population density than South Dakota (and many other US States). 15.5 vs. 3.8 per square kilometer. (according to this and this)
Your population density is more like where I live, Arizona at 17.4, which I always felt was rather crowded. (mainland Europe seems like one giant city to me)
And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going to guess it's distributed much the same way as here; a couple big cities and a bunch of smaller towns in the middle of nowhere. (and this seems to say that's a good guess)
 
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Shyguyelite

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--Never get into a fools argument; you'll be brought down to his level and then be beaten by experience.--

This reminds me of watching campus preachers with rings of people around them; there is NO DEFINITIVE answer. People pull statistics out of no where without citing sources, and even if they do, you would have to take into account how the statistics were compiled, etc. before using them. As usual for an 'issue' dealing with human morality, and I guess in this case, human rationale, this will never end. All of a sudden, everyone becomes an expert. I always found that amusing, about any argument.

Human conflict is unfortunate, but its the only way to solve... conflicts eh?

Its like all the logicians are in hiding, waiting for the next argument, the next person to make a mistake. But if someone's argument is 'wrong' then its only right to point it out eh?

You humans disgust me, in a personal, Jesus loving centered disgusting way..

.....and just to contradict everything I said so the logicians jump on opportunities and point, I will say I dislike guns in the hands of civilians.

Here. I'll cite some reasons out of no where, then you can go busy yourself correcting them, pointing out flaws, etc.

1) Guns are dangerous!!!

2) Guns kill people!!!

3) I don't like guns.

4) Guns are for cowards.

5) Guns are expensive!

6) Ammo is expensive!

7) Crime would cease if guns were destroyed!

8) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people!

9) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo.
10) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection.

11) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties.

12) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels.

13) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic.

14) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire..

15) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period.

16) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 12 rounds and handle gun safely.

17) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 120 rounds and handle gun safely.

18) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 600 rounds and handle gun safely.

19) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely.

20) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 12 rounds and handle gun safely, with 10% accuracy.
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21) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 120 rounds and handle gun safely, with 30% accuracy.
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22) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 600 rounds and handle gun safely, with 50% accuracy.

23) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy.

24) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy, and be fingerprinted.

25) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy, and be fingerprinted and photo ID'ed.

26) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy, and be fingerprinted. and photo ID'ed, with a required 1 hour course.

27) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy, and be fingerprinted. and photo ID'ed, with a required 2 hour course.

28) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy, and be fingerprinted. and photo ID'ed, with a required 10 hour course.

29) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy, and be fingerprinted. and photo ID'ed, with a required 1 year course.

30) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy, and be fingerprinted. and photo ID'ed, with a required 1 year course, and be able to shoot blind folded accurately..

31) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy, and be fingerprinted. and photo ID'ed, with a required 1 year course, and be able to shoot blind folded accurately, blindly shoot a coin.

32) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy, and be fingerprinted. and photo ID'ed, with a required 1 year course, and be able to shoot blind folded accurately, blindly shoot a coin, be able to successfully complete heart surgery with the gun.

33) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy, and be fingerprinted. and photo ID'ed, with a required 1 year course, and be able to shoot blind folded accurately, blindly shoot a coin, be able to successfully complete heart surgery with the gun, able to use gun to do microsurgery.

34) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people, and with limited ammo, with a limited gun selection, with required safeties, required warning labels, only semiautomatic, limited rate of fire, 3 day waiting period, required to fire 10,000 rounds and handle gun safely with 100% accuracy, and be fingerprinted. and photo ID'ed, with a required 1 year course, and be able to shoot blind folded accurately, blindly shoot a coin, be able to successfully complete heart surgery with the gun, able to use gun to do microsurgery, and if all guns magically disappeared off the face of the earth!

35) Guns are intrinsically evil.

36) Jesus doesn't like guns.

37) Guns are intimidating.

38) Guns are accidents waiting to happen.

39) If we had no guns, the world would be at peace.

40) Guns need to be controlled due to crime.

41) Guns contribute to crime.

42) Guns make crimes easier to commit.

43) Guns were never meant to be built by God.

44) Guns are a waste of precious resources

45) Guns are gateway weapons; soon your kids will be playing with nuclear bombs.

46) Guns are a cruel way to kill people.

47) Guns don't serve any purpose in life like cereal does.

48) Guns murder!

49) Guns are Satan's primary tool in his scheme to take over the world by children warriors who are injected with valium and prozac, as well as being forced to read the Koran.

50) Guns suck.

Have fun. I can make another list if you want.
 
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Bun-Bun

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1) Guns are dangerous!!!

Yeah, but so are things like pretzels, cars, jumbo jets, diesel fuel, and tire irons.

2) Guns kill people!!!

So do cars and swimming pools. In fact, I'm fairly sure that swimming pools are more dangerous than firearms.

3) I don't like guns.

And that's my problem why?

4) Guns are for cowards.

I'd rather be alive and a coward than dead and brave if that's the case.

5) Guns are expensive!

It depends on the guns that you buy. I have four rifles that are legal for deer hunting that I spent $100 a piece or less on to purchase.

6) Ammo is expensive!

It depends on the ammo that you buy.

8) Firearm-related homicides would decrease if guns were issued only to certain people!

A gun is thousand year old technology. With supplies found at a local hardware store, I could make one. Watch Tremors 3 to see what I mean. Yes, it really is that simple.

I'll skip the boring stats.

35) Guns are intrinsically evil.

No more than a knife is intrinsically evil.

36) Jesus doesn't like guns.

He never had one.

37) Guns are intimidating.

Not to me.

38) Guns are accidents waiting to happen.

No they aren't. I'm less likely to die of an accident gunshot wound than lots of other unpleasant things.

39) If we had no guns, the world would be at peace.

Someone needs to read some history, then.

40) Guns need to be controlled due to crime.

Can you repeal the law of supply and demand?

41) Guns contribute to crime.

So do lots of other things like ski masks and cars. Should we ban them?

43) Guns were never meant to be built by God.

Then why did He write the laws of physics so that the function?

44) Guns are a waste of precious resources

We throw away lots of steel and plastic every day. How precious are they, really?

45) Guns are gateway weapons; soon your kids will be playing with nuclear bombs.

It's hard to set of a nuclear bomb though.

46) Guns are a cruel way to kill people.

As opposed to...?

47) Guns don't serve any purpose in life like cereal does.

Yes they do. They channel the forces of combustion.

48) Guns murder!

How can an inanimate object act with the intention to kill someone?

49) Guns are Satan's primary tool in his scheme to take over the world by children warriors who are injected with valium and prozac, as well as being forced to read the Koran.

Wha...?

50) Guns suck.

So does bringing a knife to a gunfight.
 
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TwistTim

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So do cars and swimming pools. In fact, I'm fairly sure that swimming pools are more dangerous than firearms.
You sir are brillant and I loved your answers.....

in fact, John Stossel gave a speech at Canada's Fraser Institue..... it's a great speech to listen to.... here's the link http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1876894381231272307&q=John+Stossel+Fraser+Institute

it's about many topics, gun control's not directly covered, but the (mis)reporting of deaths by the media is.... and Gun deaths are far less likely to occur than you hear, I don't remember where it is at, and I'm gonna sit though the whole speech to find it..... it's worth watching, even if I don't agree with everything he says.....(and I don't, he's pro homosexual marriage) but there are valid points he makes, about the media's bias in reporting facts......

on a side note: about knowing something about another country:
trust nothing you hear, almost nothing you see, little of what you read, and less if it's on the internet, because that won't paint the true picture of this country, or any.... I doubt Finland's really filled with homo child molesters, but I can find websites that say that..... doesn't make it true......
 
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Blackguard_

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1) Guns are dangerous!!!

No, they're not. Have you ever fired one?


2) Guns kill people!!!

So does nearly everything. Besides, some people need killing.

3) I don't like guns.
I don't like Japanimation.


4) Guns are for cowards.
While I have to admit the Spartan idea of even archers as "cowards too scared to get close his foe" has it's appeal, I have no problem having an unfair advantage against an immoral attacker. Not every fight is a gentlemenly dual.

5) Guns are expensive!

They're cheaper than computers, unless you want something fancy or rare. Guns can be expensive and they cvan be cheap. there's a whole range of them.

6) Ammo is expensive!

Only some rare and fancy kinds. Much ammo is cheap.

7) Crime would cease if guns were destroyed!

Becasue no one ever used a blade or blut object in a crime before? Or, crime was invented in the 14th century?


Becaue people only count as dead if they are shot? Besides, there's this thing called a "black market". Maybe you've heard of it?

35) Guns are intrinsically evil.

Says who or what? And how? If it's because they can kill someone, then, well, you must be a Dualist, and hate guns simply becasue they are made of base matter, as anything material can kill.

36) Jesus doesn't like guns.

Chapter and verse. I can cite chapter and verse for,; Luke 22:36. Jesus seems to have no problem with weapons.

37) Guns are intimidating.

No, guns are awesome! (in both the traditional and 1980's senses of the word)

38) Guns are accidents waiting to happen.

Not unless you are an idiot.

39) If we had no guns, the world would be at peace.

Because war was invented in the 14th century?


40) Guns need to be controlled due to crime.

Because crime can;t be commited without guns?


41) Guns contribute to crime.
Guns detract from crime.

42) Guns make crimes easier to commit.
guns make crime easier to stop.

43) Guns were never meant to be built by God.

Then tell us, O wise one, how you aquired such knowledge of the gods?

44) Guns are a waste of precious resources

The computer you're typing this on is a much greater waste.

45) Guns are gateway weapons; soon your kids will be playing with nuclear bombs.
Yeah, I wish I had an Atomic Discombobulator.

46) Guns are a cruel way to kill people.

Not any more than any other way.

47) Guns don't serve any purpose in life like cereal does.

Guns are fun, they kill excessive animals and people that need killing.

48) Guns murder!
People murder!

49) Guns are Satan's primary tool in his scheme to take over the world by children warriors who are injected with valium and prozac, as well as being forced to read the Koran.

No, gun control is Satan's primary tool to leave us open for attack by those hordes.
50) Guns suck.

Guns are awesome!

Have fun. I can make another list if you want.

Just don't make it so long next time.
 
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Tuffguy

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You know why Europe has less murders? They are a continent comprised completely of all the same people. The lack of diversity means less conflict. Differen't people don't get along, and thats what we have in many of the cities.

I would be willing to bet that if you removed the cities (which is where practially all of the crime happens) we would have the same deaths as Europe.
 
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Shyguyelite

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Those 'arguments'... I hope none of you took them seriously, as they were made to be ridiculously absurd and with no supporting evidence on purpose.

In any case, well done! I'll make a pro-gun list next (I'll just use 'positive' adjectives rather than negative ones, and switch words around )

Isn't this so fun!?!??! Everyones having a great time!
 
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The Princess Bride

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In America, we have the right to bear arms. The day Washington decides we don't, I know quite a few people that will march them down. I will be one of them.
Amen!

I know how to use guns properly, and intend to get one myself here soon.

Gun Laws and regulations are good TO AN EXTENT, however, by unarming US citizens, it would merely make the lives of burglars and the like easier to harm people and steal.
 
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