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Graven images of Jesus

ViaCrucis

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I`m not too big on Jesus' pictures although as I understand it most Jesus' pictures are based on the image on the shroud. The shroud may in fact be real in my opinion, if it is the pictures could portray what Jesus really looked like.

The Shroud of Turin is most likely a medieval forgery. Most images of Jesus are based on the 6th century Icon of Christ Pantokrator.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ozso

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Even inside the Holy of Holies graven images resided:

 
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Pavel Mosko

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You are projecting yourself onto us.

I suggest you actually study the real Jewish roots of Christian worship, and stop letting your guilty conscience


Liturgica.com | Liturgics | Early Christian Liturgics

The Temple Roots of the Liturgy

https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?entryid=1955#:~:text=The synagogue contains a forecourt,cycle, are conserved at Damascus.

Dura-Europos church - Wikipedia
 
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ozso

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One would think someone who's Messianic would already be up to speed regarding the Jewish roots of Christian worship.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:" John 3:14

 
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Pavel Mosko

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One would think someone who's Messianic would already be up to speed regarding the Jewish roots of Christian worship.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:" John 3:14


One would think that, but I am not surprised. Once in a while, I meet one that impresses me, but most of the time not. The movement according to Church history standards is very recent, and most are really Protestants as far as their actual background and thinking goes.
 
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ozso

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I might be older than it is. Quite honestly when I saw that it was formed in the 1960s, I pretty much disregarded it.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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I might be older than it is.

Well the rabbi who started the movement Jews for Jesus got around 1953-1955 and began evangelizing Jews in New York city immediately after that time, but the movement didn't really get going till the 1970s as far as getting some national and international fame and sparking other messianic type movements and bodies.


But still Pentecostalism is a new movement as far as Church history goes, and that movement is twice as old as this one.
 
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RickReads

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The Shroud of Turin is most likely a medieval forgery. Most images of Jesus are based on the 6th century Icon of Christ Pantokrator.

-CryptoLutheran

Based on what I've seen the tests that were used to claim the shroud is a forgery were debunked by more advanced testing. Sloppy painters were the cause.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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[QUOTE="The Liturgist, post: 76713778, member: 424341"<Snip> Indeed Lutherans deny that any sacrifice is offered to God during the Divine Liturgy, rather, they see the Liturgy as Gottesdienst, that is to say, God offering Himself to us.

<Snip>.[/QUOTE]

Just to clarify...

The celebration of the Mass is both Sacrificial and Sacramental in the sense that what we do in the liturgy is termed "Sacrificial" and what God does for us is "Sacramental".
 
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Strong in Him

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why are there falsely so many unbiblical graven images of Jesus in so called church buildings, online, in memes, and wherever else that has Jesus as white with long blonde/gold hair (long hair is a sin for a man 1 Corinthians 11:14)

1 Corinthians hadn't been written when Jesus was on earth.
Samson had long hair - in fact he was commanded not to cut it.

yet when it comes to images of Jesus so many people still falsely use unbiblical images of a made up Jesus online and this is falsely accepted that Jesus was white blonde long hair. why?

how do we know what Jesus looked like?

We don't, and many people who have tried to depict him do so according to their own culture - e.g for Africans, he would be black.
I'm not sure that it's a sin to imagine what he might have looked like - as long as we don't think the image is real and worship that.

even if there is a true and accurate depiction out there among the thousands that is still a violation of Gods written commands to use any depiction of Jesus any color, race, ethnicity it is all a sin, graven image and idolatry, and very offensive.

Only if you worship it.
In Isaiah's prophecy he says, "he had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him; nothing in his appearance that we might desire him", Isaiah 53:2.
Why is it "very offensive" to imagine how Jesus might have looked, when we are almost given a description?
Yes, Hollywood are going to cast their leading actors in the role - that is an attempt to get people to watch their films. Even that is not wrong - if it leads to people watching a Biblical, or Gospel, film.
 
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prodromos

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(long hair is a sin for a man 1 Corinthians 11:14)
The Greek word "κομα" refers not simply to long hair, but hair that has been styled or ornamented. Whereas it was common for women to have braided or elaborately styled hair, it was not something that men would do as it was considered a feminine trait.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Nice and I also got 2 t-shirts with that Hagia Sophia icon of Christ the Pantocrator, from an Orthodox vendor on Amazon a few years back, as can be seen in my avatar here.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Do you have pictures of your family or friends? Is that a graven image as insult to God because they are made in the image and likeness of God?

Icons and statues reminds us of heavenly things.

lol yeah I was wondering of that sort of thing myself.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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The Shroud of Turin is most likely a medieval forgery. Most images of Jesus are based on the 6th century Icon of Christ Pantokrator.

-CryptoLutheran

I've heard stuff on it, all over the place, but mostly stuff verify it than not.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Well it took a while, but I found something I was look for in reference to the stuff going on in the thread, saint Isaac's (the Syrian / of Nineveh) writing about traditional Christian liturgical practice written because of the heretical gnostic sect of the Messalians, who often seem a lot like some radical Protestants (especially antisacramental Charismatics)!

Messalianism - OrthodoxWiki

https://jbburnett.com/resources/alfeyev_prayer-in-isaac-syr.pdf
 
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The Liturgist

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The author of that work, Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev, is also a brilliant composer, and is in charge of managing the ecumenical relations of the Russian Orthodox Church.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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The author of that work, Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev, is also a brilliant composer, and is in charge of managing the ecumenical relations of the Russian Orthodox Church.

I had a lot of problems Googling this.... use to be easy finding Russian Orthodox articles on this sort of thing. Almost posted a thread on the Ancient Way asking about this.
 
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