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Grandeur and size of Cathedrals

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Diciple

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For centurys these buildings have been built for the glory of God. Most of us are impressed by the grandeur of cathedrals. Beautiful staoned glass windows and statues. But do we agree with it. So much space going to wast in these massive buildings. I always wonder to myself, what does God think of it. He was always speaking out for the poor. I find no real logic in this grandeur while most of the world is starving. What do poor people make of this grandeur etc. Nowadays there is more emphasis on economical buildings, more simple, more practical.
 

bliz

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Is there no place in the Kingdom for houses of worship that take our breath away and make us feel just a little bit like we are entering God's throne room?

I find it hard to believe that the God who created majestic mountains, soaring trees and vast oceans has no sense of asthetics in worship.
 
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Devekut

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God's call for us to minister to the needs of the poor is unquestionalbe. They are his special people with a place in his heart unique to them because of the burdens they bear. However, this does not mean that the our places of worship are to be barren. A church helps build a community, and its architecture helps to inspire awe for God. Did not God order the construction of the Temple? Did he not specify the use of gold and precious materials? Didn't all of Israel pay taxes under Solomon that the Temple might be built? The church, however elaborate, is still one of the most compassionate institutions when it comes to helping the poor. Of course we could always do more and should. The problem lies more in individuals holding to wealth for their own selves than a community that collectively invests some of its money for the glory of God and as an aid to the faithful.

The question is perhaps resolved by scripture when turning to the story of the woman with the alabastor jar:

"Here a dinner was given in Jesus' honor. Martha served, while Lazarus was among those reclining at the table with him. 3Then Mary took about a pint of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus' feet and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. 4But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5"Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." 6He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.
7"Leave her alone," Jesus replied. " It was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. 8You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me." John 12: 1-9
 
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Diciple

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Devekut and bliz you have shown how little I really know my Bible. This reference to the Temple of Solomon is facinating. This would appear to say it all. These splendid buildings are correct after all. Thank you Devekut for pointing this out.
 
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ParsonJefferson

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I can not help but recall God's very explicit and not inexpensive instructions for the building of the Tabernacle.

That's a very good point.

I'm wondering though... Do you think God expects us to follow-suit now, in the Christian Age? What I mean is that I don't see any indication as to what Christian churches might, or might not, look like in the New Testament.

I'm wondering if God is equally pleased by some poor people meeting under a tree, as He is by some wealthier people meeting in an opulent cathedral.
 
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bliz

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I believe God is pleased by our worship of Him wherever it takes place. There is nothing wrong with a simple church or a remodeled supermarket or the aforementioned tree.

But I also believe there is a place for the grand cathedrals, stained glass windows, intricate woodwork and stone carving and expensive fabrics.

God understands our hardwiring - He designed it! Some of us will be more receptive in an ornate and eleborate setting, and others in a plain or more natural setting.

I was raised by the Baptists: simple, inexpensive, functional. I went to visit a friend's Episcopal church in college and wept through much of the service. There in the ritual, and ceremony and architecture was a kind of worship I suddenly discovered I had been missing my wholoe life without ever knowing it existed!

That hardly means that everyone should worship in that manner or that I cannot worship in any other setting. There I found the same repetition in archiceture, stained glass and our actions (Kneeling to pray, standing to praise, sitting to learn) that is present throughout the Tabernacle. If I can recall, the metals used in the Tabernacle all had meaning, like bronze for justice and silver for mercy. (Please, someone correct me, I don't have time to check.) All of the poles that upheld the curtain around the Tabanacle grounds will bronze with a silver cap - justice with mercy - laid out visually for all to see. Wooden posts could have done the job, but not the whole job that God intended them to do.

Obviously a church can only have one style of architecture. But we need to keep in mind the different aesthetic enviroments that appeal to different people. Just as we consider those who learn best by sight, or by hearing or by doing as we make lesson plans or seek for sermon illustrations, we need to consider the varying aesthetic senses. A stark sanctuary is perfectly functional, but will it give some the sense that God is austere and stingy? Is an eleaborate setting, formal or informal, going to distract others?
 
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E.C.

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Why cathedrals look fancy:

The church (building) is supposed to be like heaven on earth. Go to an American embassy in any country, and you'd see bits of Americana. Same thing goes with the church (building). Since we as human see those with gold-like stuff as fancy, than some things in the church are gold-plated.

This is a difference between Eastern and Western Christianity. Eastern Christianity typically is home to small building churches and cathedrals. Western Christianity is typically home to huge churches and cathedrals. This is because in the West, they wanted to teach to people by the masses. In the East, we get to know our priests.
 
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Voegelin

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So much space going to wast in these massive buildings..

OK...so the religious, communal and artistic achievements don't impress you. How about the scientific ones?

Giovanni Cassini used the observatory in the Basilica of San Petronio in Bolonga to confirm Kepler's position on elliptical orbits. 17th and 18th century cathedrals in that city, Florence, Paris and Rome were designed to serve as solar observatories. For 200 years, there were no other observatories in the world as good. That worthwhile?

Btw....what about secular structures built on a grand scale? Find the bloated spiral design of the Guggenheim museum in Manhattan inspiring? How about the Met, that big cube thing in Paris and the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts? In a class with Chartres and Notre Dame?
 
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Diciple

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Of I am greatly impressed by the splendour and beauty of the buildings Voegelin. I learned from members that God ordered the construction of the Temple with gold etc. But we must realise that we have thousands of these cathedrals. God did not order the construction of thousands of Temples, just one. You see?
 
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LLWHA

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Devekut and bliz you have shown how little I really know my Bible. This reference to the Temple of Solomon is facinating. This would appear to say it all. These splendid buildings are correct after all. Thank you Devekut for pointing this out.

No they are not correct. God gave permission for one church building because of His well beloved servant (David).

God wants to live in the hearts of humans not old buildings. He needs no home made by men.
These are evil buildings full of Idols. God hates them.
Jesus preached against churches and told humans not to pray in them or on street corners.
Jesus was the last priest, rabbi, imam (etc.): and we are all brothers
Jesus words in blue.
Matt. 23:8 But be not ye called priest (etc.): for One is your Teacher, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.


Thomas 2:15 Now when Thomas came to his companions, they asked him: What did Jesus say to thee?
2:16 Thomas said to them: If I tell you one of the words which He said to me, you will take up stones and throw at me; and fire will come from the stones and burn you up.
2:17 Jesus said to them: If you fast (ritually), you will beget sin for yourselves, and if you pray (in churches), you will be condemned, and if you give alms (to the churches), you will do evil to your spirits. And if you go into any land and wander in the regions, if they receive you, eat what they set before you, heal the sick among them.


(Matt. 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen by them: otherwise ye have NO reward from your Father which is in heaven.),

Matt. 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


Its right there for all to see and read do not go to churches and pray and do not give money in places were you can be see doing this. Like in churches.

No one or all most none do as Jesus tells them.

Do you follow Jesus or some blind guide in a church?

As for me I follow Jesus.


"The eyes of man see the great acts of the Lord everywhere and the ears hear His Wonders, still he turns away from His Face and goes the way of the adversary (Lucifer - Satan). Man loves to be honoured and worshipped by the lesser breed, and revel in sins swaying the sceptre of death over his own kith and kin, in making them subjects to himself (instead of to God)."


"The stiffneckedness (arrogant obstinacy) of heart and ears may resist the good and Holy Spirit, persecute the Prophets, betray and slay the Just One, but once the measure of inequity is full to overflowing, even they must bathe in the pool of blood which they prepared.

"He who suffered upon the cross realised in the great drama of life the cunningness of the old serpent and annulled its power when he exclaimed: "Abba, forgive them for they know not what they do (they are insane)!" With that injunction the path is open for the return of the Prodigal to Abba.

"Man's ONLY salvation lies in leaving Satan and his claim and going The Way of the Just One to God and His paradice.

"As by woman, taking the advice of an intercepter, sin has entered mind and heart, generating havoc during the period of gestation, casting generations into the fiery furnace of consummation," Jesus
 
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GratiaCorpusChristi

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Is there no place in the Kingdom for houses of worship that take our breath away and make us feel just a little bit like we are entering God's throne room?

I find it hard to believe that the God who created majestic mountains, soaring trees and vast oceans has no sense of asthetics in worship.
An excellent point, and beautifully put.
 
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