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Even where the scriptures say to be peaceable as much as it concerns us, this is still not talking about not speaking the truth in order to maintain peace. In fact where that passage is listed is right in the midst of a passage about letting an unbelieving spouse leave. If we were to simply keep the peace, and not speak up, the unbelieving spouse would not want to leave. It's the very fact that, now the person is living in truth, that is offensive to the unbeliever.
So now you're saying that our purpose is getting the unbelieving spouse to leave?
No....the purpose is to take a stand....and not bend to the whims of others for the sake of peace.So now you're saying that our purpose is getting the unbelieving spouse to leave?
No....the purpose is to take a stand....and not bend to the whims of others for the sake of peace.
That "stand" BTW....IS what is best for everyone....it includes God's love, which is a "win-win" for EVERYONE. The thing is....we can't make that decision for everyone....that has to be an individual decision.....they need to believe in the "win--win" themself.
The peace that passes all understanding is one of the fruits of the spirit when you are a Christian. It's the peace that you have when it doesn't make sense to be peaceful, the peace that David talks about, the comfort he felt even in the valley of the shadow of death--why was it there? Because God was with him, and his rod (authority) and staff (guidance) comforted him. He knew where to go and what to do even though things were bleak and terrible. That's the peace being spoken of.
I am not talking about "smiting"....or us being weapons...not against people, anyway.
What I am talking about is that there are two sides....the truth...and lies. People have to choose one side...no one can be (or is able to be) hovering between the two.
That passage in Matthew talks about the division within families. That sons will be against fathers.....women against MIL's ....daughters against mothers. Our love for God needs to be supreme....and what truly unites us with others is having a love for HIM in common.
Being reconciled with God means seeing sin (anything that comes against HIS perfect love).....and wanting for others to experience HIS perfect love. For others to accept HIS gift of salvation.......but, that takes seeing the sin that divides.
I am not talking about "smiting"....or us being weapons...not against people, anyway.
What I am talking about is that there are two sides....the truth...and lies. People have to choose one side...no one can be (or is able to be) hovering between the two.
That passage in Matthew talks about the division within families. That sons will be against fathers.....women against MIL's ....daughters against mothers. Our love for God needs to be supreme....and what truly unites us with others is having a love for HIM in common.
Being reconciled with God means seeing sin (anything that comes against HIS perfect love).....and wanting for others to experience HIS perfect love. For others to accept HIS gift of salvation.......but, that takes seeing the sin that divides.
We can and should strive to tell the truth IN LOVE, though. That's what grace and truth looks like, IMO.
"Husband/wife, you are doing XYZ which is sin. It is affecting you/your ability to function and is hurting me. How can I help you remove this sin from your life? What is the cause of this sin and how can we find a healthy way for you to cope or fix what is causing it?"
"Husband/wife, what you are doing is sin and God hates sin. You need to stop and repent your sinful ways to God. You are destroying both of us and you don't seem to care! Don't get mad at me, though. I wouldn't have to say this if you would just fix the sin."
Which approach tells the truth in love and which one condemns?
Absolutely not! My point is that being peaceable doesn't include not standing up for the truth. I agree with you that we can show God's indwelling peace in us, but can we distribute that peace to others? We can show them where we got it, but we can't give it to them.
Exactly. We cannot amputate verses of the Bible from each other...they all go together...there are NO contradictions.We can and should strive to tell the truth IN LOVE, though. That's what grace and truth looks like, IMO.
"Husband/wife, you are doing XYZ which is sin. It is affecting you/your ability to function and is hurting me. How can I help you remove this sin from your life? What is the cause of this sin and how can we find a healthy way for you to cope or fix what is causing it?"
"Husband/wife, what you are doing is sin and God hates sin. You need to stop and repent your sinful ways to God. You are destroying both of us and you don't seem to care! Don't get mad at me, though. I wouldn't have to say this if you would just fix the sin."
Which approach tells the truth in love and which one condemns?
No, Cons....you have the "sub-text" all wrong.If someone wrote these things, on occasion, it is easy to take at face value as a statement of solid Biblical truth. But after so many and so much of it, the below is what I read as subtext in yours and romans posts. Its getting a bit much to take. Its as if you teo have positioned yourselves somewhere over the rest or something , taking these things way to far as private crusades for you guys to sort everyone out with. It really starts to seem this way
What I am talking about is that there are two sides....the truth (YOUR side)...and lies(the other persons side). People have to choose one side...no one can be (or is able to be) hovering between the two. (oh that it were this clear)
That passage in Matthew talks about the division within families. That sons will be against fathers.....women against MIL's ....daughters against mothers. Our love for God needs to be supreme....and what truly unites us with others is having a love for HIM in common.
Being reconciled with God means (YOU)seeing sin(IN OTHERS)(anything that comes against HIS perfect love).....and wanting for others to experience HIS perfect love. For others to accept HIS gift of salvation.......but, that takes(the other person) seeing the sin that divides (ME FROM THEM)
We can and should strive to tell the truth IN LOVE, though. That's what grace and truth looks like, IMO.
"Husband/wife, you are doing XYZ which is sin. It is affecting you/your ability to function and is hurting me. How can I help you remove this sin from your life? What is the cause of this sin and how can we find a healthy way for you to cope or fix what is causing it?"
"Husband/wife, what you are doing is sin and God hates sin. You need to stop and repent your sinful ways to God. You are destroying both of us and you don't seem to care! Don't get mad at me, though. I wouldn't have to say this if you would just fix the sin."
Which approach tells the truth in love and which one condemns?
No, Cons....you have the "sub-text" all wrong.
Me seeing sin in another person isn't going to help one bit...THEY need to see it themself--THAT is the ONLY way there is going to be "healing".
THAT is my point. That is the most difficult thing....when we love someone, and THEY won't see what they are doing that is killing them. To watch someone drown right before you...when you are holding out the lifeline and they perceive that lifeline as what is causing them to suffer.
Thats a play on words.
OK, so they have to see it themselves. But...YOU have already seen it, right? in them? So....you need to make them aware.
same thing, just reworded
Exactly. We cannot amputate verses of the Bible from each other...they all go together...there are NO contradictions.
Personally....I don't think "speaking the truth in love" HAS a certain approach. What McS is true....each person needs to be treated on an individual basis--just as Jesus did. Meaning, I can't say what specific words are said...or, what tone they are said in....it is about the attitude behind them. The attitude should be what I bolded first...but, because of the response of the spouse being confronted....the words may have to be more like the second approach...or something like, "What you are doing ins destroying both you individually...and your marriage...and you need to stop that and start doing things completely differently." I do feel those words (the second approach) would be better said by a 3rd party...not the spouse.
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