Good People

[Brother Adam]

I heard the other day that Catholics believe that anyone who is a good person, no matter what their religion they will go to heaven, is this true.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I heard the other day that Catholics believe that anyone who is a good person, no matter what their religion they will go to heaven, is this true.

It's kind of hard to sum up in a brief way, but that is not true.

What Catholics believe about salvation is that salvation comes through Christ and that God, in the end, decides the eternal fate of the individual.

We do not adhere to once saved always saved, we believe salvation is a process and that there are certain sins that can lead to eternal damnation if not repented of. We also believe that all men have a shot at the pearly gates, we just do not presume to know who they are by referring to them as saved or unsaved.

Can a person achieve salvation on merit alone? That depends on their knowledge of Christ and whatever God decides for that individual.

hope that helps.

Michelle

 

[Rising_Suns]

Brother Adam, peace be with you,

This is not exactly true. We all know that Jesus is the only way to the Father, but we as Catholics realize that God looks to the heart first, and likewise Jesus can be known in the heart first before professing with the mouth.

So for example, the 120,000+ people who just died from the Tsunami's, many non-Catholics would be quick to condemn them to hell because they never heard the gospel before or adopted the 'Christian' title (this is an elistist mentality that Protestants tend to fall into) but we as Catholics realize that their culpability and accountability diminish because of thus, and we trust in the mercy of Jesus to judge rightly according to the desire to know Him in their hearts.

God can make Himself known to people through their hearts before the mind may even consciously be aware of it, so even to those tribes in far off lands who have never heard the gospel before or the name 'Jesus Christ', they can still be saved by knowing Jesus in their hearts. Otherwise, God would not be a God of mercy.

May the Lord give you His peace!

-Davide

 

[Alexis OCA]

I heard the other day that Catholics believe that anyone who is a good person, no matter what their religion they will go to heaven, is this true.

This was posted by one of our Moderators earlier today in a recently closed thread:

"Our Doctrine prohibits Catholics from presuming to judge souls."

We can however discuss what the Church teaches is necessary for salvation. You can draw your own private conclusions if you feel compelled to apply that to individuals. Generally we do not.

 

[marciadietrich]

I think the prohibition on judging souls is on an individual basis or by default due to being in a certain category ... but within Catholic teaching we can say generally that it is possible by the grace of God and the merits of Jesus Christ our saviour that someone who isn't explicitly a Christian, but is a good person, might be saved.

I think that threads the needle.

Marcia

 

[Paul S]

*gets out a big roll of duct tape and a giant bottle of super glue and attaches extra ecclesiam nullus salus to the sticky section*

Adam,

We can discuss what is required for salvation, and what will send a person to hell, but we cannot know for certain how that applies to any individual.

The Church teaches that one must be part of the Catholic Church, which was the one founded by Jesus, to be saved, unless one is outside the Church through no fault of his own. Those who lived thousands of years ago, or even after Jesus, but had no opportunity to hear the Gospel, might still be saved, since it would be unjust to condemn them for something they could not possibly know. We call this "invincible ignorance", since the not knowing must be due to no fault of one's own.

One who knows of Christ but knowingly rejects Him places himself outside the Church and will likely go to hell, as will a person who dies in mortal sin, since by sinning mortally he is telling God he refuses to obey His commandments and does not want heaven. Since full knowledge is required, and only God knows what is in a person's mind and heart, only God can judge any particular individual. We cannot know.

God has, however, chosen to reveal to us that certain people are in heaven. He usually does this by granting miracles based on requests to the person. For example, one might ask Mother Teresa to ask God to heal someone, and if the cure is granted and found to be a miracle, this is a sign she is in heaven. Two such miracles are required before the Church will formally call someone a Saint, signifying that the person is in heaven.

 

[PastorSherm]

Adam, We've spoken on other threads on the pentecostal board. i can't speak for catholics since i am not one..however in Protestantism there is a similar belief...Those who have never heard the gospel are judged differently then those who have heard and rejected it. Same with those who lived before Christ and thousands of miles from Isreal. Buddha for example could be very well judged to enter heaven..not saying he is..because like Catholics..we do not presume to know who God will judge worth or unworthy.

 

[Brother Simon]

Dear Brother Adam, peace be with you -

Although we can quote the catechism and various Church fathers and offer some such explanations, ultimately it is a mystery.

God has such an abundance of Mercy. He alone will judge each individual, because only He knows their true intentions. He knows everyone's hearts and their motives.

With love,
Simon

 

[Michelina]

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"​

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?

Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

 

[RhetorTheo]

Some Catholics believe that. Other Catholics believe only those visibly in the Catholic Church are saved (and even there, only some of those visibly in the Church). Still others believe something in between those extremes. There isn't one uniform interpretation of the Church's teaching on this subject.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Some Catholics believe that. Other Catholics believe only those visibly in the Catholic Church are saved (and even there, only some of those visibly in the Church). Still others believe something in between those extremes. There isn't one uniform belief on this.

This is true, but such people do not adhere to the teachings of the Church.

 

[RhetorTheo]

This is true, but such people do not adhere to the teachings of the Church.

Which of the three groups I mentioned? Or all three (ie, everyone)?

 

[Michelina]

This is true, but such people do not adhere to the teachings of the Church.

Exactly, InnerPhyre.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Which of the three groups I mentioned?

The ones who say that only confirmed, faithful, practicing Catholics will go to heaven

 

[PioMagnus]

Some Catholics believe that. Other Catholics believe only those visibly in the Catholic Church are saved (and even there, only some of those visibly in the Church). Still others believe something in between those extremes. There isn't one uniform interpretation of the Church's teaching on this subject.

These are the ones who do not believe what the church teaches: "Other Catholics believe only those bisivly in the Catholic Church are saved..." "Still others believe something in between those extremes."

The official teaching of the Church was presented in an above quote directly from the Catechism, which is the teaching of the Church. A Catholic who disbelieves what the Catechism says there has no bearing on the true teaching of the Church. All it does is muddle the situation to the uninformed.

One group of "Catholics" rejects everything post vatican II. Therefore, they are not Catholic. At least one of these groups espouses the idea that you must be a formal member of the Catholic Church in order to be saved. They are wrong.

Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us,
Pio Magnus

 

[RhetorTheo]

The ones who say that only confirmed, faithful, practicing Catholics will go to heaven

So those who say most/all good people go to heaven regardless of their religion, and also those who say many good people who are not Catholic go to heaven or all Christians go to heaven, are both adhering to Church teaching?

 

[Miss Shelby]

The official teaching of the Church was presented in an above quote directly from the Catechism, which is the teaching of the Church. A Catholic who disbelieves what the Catechism says there has no bearing on the true teaching of the Church. All it does is muddle the situation to the uninformed.

Thank you, Pio.

Michelle

 

[RhetorTheo]

These are the ones who do not believe what the church teaches: "Other Catholics believe only those bisivly in the Catholic Church are saved..." "Still others believe something in between those extremes."

So reading the Catechism quoted, the only possible reasonably interpretation is that anyone who is a good person, no matter what their religion they will go to heaven?

The official teaching of the Church was presented in an above quote directly from the Catechism, which is the teaching of the Church. A Catholic who disbelieves what the Catechism says there has no bearing on the true teaching of the Church. All it does is muddle the situation to the uninformed.

Perhaps, but I would have thought the opposite, that posting what the Catechism said would leave it muddled. I think you would have to ask Adam whether he thinks the Catechism's quote answered his question fully, or even at all.

 

[Michelina]

The official teaching of the Church was presented in an above quote directly from the Catechism, which is the teaching of the Church. A Catholic who disbelieves what the Catechism says there has no bearing on the true teaching of the Church. All it does is muddle the situation to the uninformed.

Thanks, Pio. You hit the nail on the head! The reason the Bishops, thru Silvio Cardinal Oddi (RIP), asked Pope John Paul for the Catechism is because there was so much chaotic confusion about Catholic Doctrine. They were tired of the "muddle" and wanted to return to the Normal situation: the Church teaches Clearly. That is what the Catechism is all about.

 

[InnerPhyre]

So those who say most/all good people go to heaven regardless of their religion, and also those who say many good people who are not Catholic go to heaven or all Christians go to heaven, are both adhering to Church teaching?

I believe it's been explained that there's more to it than just being a good person. I think the stance of the Church is simply that ignorance will not necessarily result in damnation.

Jesus Himself said not all Christians will go to heaven, and we, as Catholics know that it is very possible for a good Catholic to commit mortal sin and risk hell.