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<blockquote data-quote="ViaCrucis" data-source="post: 76272154" data-attributes="member: 293637"><p>Lutherans believe in predestination, but we understand it in a substantially different way than Calvinists do. Namely, predestination does not mean God rejects anyone, what is usually called "double predestination"; and further, we do not believe predestination means that the elect can't help but be saved, otherwise the Lord's teaching that even the elect can fall away and the Parable of the Sower makes no sense.</p><p></p><p>So a Lutheran response to the Five Points ofCalvinism would be:</p><p></p><p>(Calvinist position --> Lutheran position)</p><p></p><p>Total Depravity --> Total Inability</p><p></p><p>essentially the same here, we are thoroughly unable by our own power do anything to merit grace, not even a "yes" to God's invitation.</p><p></p><p>Unconditional Election --> Unconditional Election</p><p></p><p>Lutherans agree with Calvinists here, election is completely unconditional, it has nothing to do with what we've done, what we do, or what we will do. God has chosen us in Christ before the foundation of the world. God didn't choose me because there was anything about me that merited salvation, God chose me purely as an act of love and grace.</p><p></p><p>Limited Atonement --> Universal Atonement</p><p></p><p>Note that it isn't "Unlimited Atonement" as Arminianism says, it is universal. Christ died for everyone. Jesus didn't just die for the elect, Jesus didn't just die for those who would believe. Jesus died for everyone, and so literally everyone is included in Christ's perfect, finished, atoning work. That's why St. Paul can say in Romans 5:18 that all have been justified, and the author of Hebrews can say in Hebrews 2:9 that Christ suffered death for all human beings.</p><p></p><p>Jesus really did die for everyone. Not some, not most, not a few, but everyone.</p><p></p><p>Irresistable Grace --> Resistable Grace</p><p></p><p>The Lutheran position is that, yes, we can reject, deny, resist God's grace. We can, in our sin, say "no" to God and deprive ourselves of God's love and mercy. In fact, that's how people damn themselves. God isn't the one who damns sinners, we damn ourselves by our rejection of what God has done, is doing, and will do. Lutherans would agree with C.S. Lewis who writes that in the end there are only two kinds of people, those who have said to God, "Thy will be done"; and those to whom God says, "thy will be done". It is the will of God that all be saved, the only ones who won't be saved are those who insist on having everything their way--even to the bitter end.</p><p></p><p>Perseverance of the Saints --> Assurance of the Saints</p><p></p><p>The Calvinist position, having built itself atop the previous propositions, asserts therefore that it is impossible for one who has been regenerated and justified to later turn away, fall away, apostatize, etc. Lutherans reject this entirely, otherwise the Scriptures would never warn us of the danger of shipwrecking our faith, of falling away, etc. However, Lutherans insist, absolutely, on the assurance and total confidence we can have in Jesus. Not by trying to peer into a crystal ball to read God's hidden thoughts, not by looking inside of ourselves at our feelings, or looking at our works, or anything we've said, or done, thought, or even believed. Rather, we can look to the external, visible, objective realities of the Gospel--the physical body and blood of Jesus that hung upon the cross that we receive "in, with, and under" the symbols of bread and wine; the physical water of Baptism which is connected to God's word, in which we have been born again as God's children and united to Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, to the preaching of the Gospel itself (when the Gospel is being faithfully preached and not mingled together with Law), and the audible words of Absolution where we hear forgiveness of our sins spoken in the name, stead, and authority of Jesus Christ.</p><p></p><p>It is the visible, external, objective word of God that gives us assurance that we belong to Christ. Not a mystical experience, or by assessing the length or shortness of the logs in our eyes. We are, all of us, sinful sinners that sin, naked beggars; it is only by the long and everlasting arm of God's love and compassion for us in Jesus Christ that gives us hope, confidence, and assurance of our salvation.</p><p></p><p>-CryptoLutheran</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ViaCrucis, post: 76272154, member: 293637"] Lutherans believe in predestination, but we understand it in a substantially different way than Calvinists do. Namely, predestination does not mean God rejects anyone, what is usually called "double predestination"; and further, we do not believe predestination means that the elect can't help but be saved, otherwise the Lord's teaching that even the elect can fall away and the Parable of the Sower makes no sense. So a Lutheran response to the Five Points ofCalvinism would be: (Calvinist position --> Lutheran position) Total Depravity --> Total Inability essentially the same here, we are thoroughly unable by our own power do anything to merit grace, not even a "yes" to God's invitation. Unconditional Election --> Unconditional Election Lutherans agree with Calvinists here, election is completely unconditional, it has nothing to do with what we've done, what we do, or what we will do. God has chosen us in Christ before the foundation of the world. God didn't choose me because there was anything about me that merited salvation, God chose me purely as an act of love and grace. Limited Atonement --> Universal Atonement Note that it isn't "Unlimited Atonement" as Arminianism says, it is universal. Christ died for everyone. Jesus didn't just die for the elect, Jesus didn't just die for those who would believe. Jesus died for everyone, and so literally everyone is included in Christ's perfect, finished, atoning work. That's why St. Paul can say in Romans 5:18 that all have been justified, and the author of Hebrews can say in Hebrews 2:9 that Christ suffered death for all human beings. Jesus really did die for everyone. Not some, not most, not a few, but everyone. Irresistable Grace --> Resistable Grace The Lutheran position is that, yes, we can reject, deny, resist God's grace. We can, in our sin, say "no" to God and deprive ourselves of God's love and mercy. In fact, that's how people damn themselves. God isn't the one who damns sinners, we damn ourselves by our rejection of what God has done, is doing, and will do. Lutherans would agree with C.S. Lewis who writes that in the end there are only two kinds of people, those who have said to God, "Thy will be done"; and those to whom God says, "thy will be done". It is the will of God that all be saved, the only ones who won't be saved are those who insist on having everything their way--even to the bitter end. Perseverance of the Saints --> Assurance of the Saints The Calvinist position, having built itself atop the previous propositions, asserts therefore that it is impossible for one who has been regenerated and justified to later turn away, fall away, apostatize, etc. Lutherans reject this entirely, otherwise the Scriptures would never warn us of the danger of shipwrecking our faith, of falling away, etc. However, Lutherans insist, absolutely, on the assurance and total confidence we can have in Jesus. Not by trying to peer into a crystal ball to read God's hidden thoughts, not by looking inside of ourselves at our feelings, or looking at our works, or anything we've said, or done, thought, or even believed. Rather, we can look to the external, visible, objective realities of the Gospel--the physical body and blood of Jesus that hung upon the cross that we receive "in, with, and under" the symbols of bread and wine; the physical water of Baptism which is connected to God's word, in which we have been born again as God's children and united to Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, to the preaching of the Gospel itself (when the Gospel is being faithfully preached and not mingled together with Law), and the audible words of Absolution where we hear forgiveness of our sins spoken in the name, stead, and authority of Jesus Christ. It is the visible, external, objective word of God that gives us assurance that we belong to Christ. Not a mystical experience, or by assessing the length or shortness of the logs in our eyes. We are, all of us, sinful sinners that sin, naked beggars; it is only by the long and everlasting arm of God's love and compassion for us in Jesus Christ that gives us hope, confidence, and assurance of our salvation. -CryptoLutheran [/QUOTE]
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