God word logos

[Plurality]

this is open for discussion regarding John1:1, (comments or criticism are welcome).
this concerns logocentrism in Christian theology and the problem of reincarnation. this comes across as in the beginning god was primarily the word an authoritative voice of god. the problem of incarnation is to explain how a word becomes flesh, jesus (emmanuel). as all word is based on sound or written down from divine revelation.
"In the beginning was the Word. And the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through hum all things were made; without him nothing was made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it."

with word there is necessarily thought, thought of word and language, prior to all expression when it is expressed in the speakers language. yet christianity, in genesis, and in this passage does not favour the word as written down as this is secondary to authoritative word of god, it is second-hand knowledge, rather than the biblical account of word with god word as god, based on what is heard as expressed.

 

[granpa]

only humans are "worders" because only humans possess logos (reason)

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

this is open for discussion regarding John1:1, (comments or criticism are welcome).
this concerns logocentrism in Christian theology and the problem of reincarnation. this comes across as in the beginning god was primarily the word an authoritative voice of god. the problem of incarnation is to explain how a word becomes flesh, jesus (emmanuel). as all word is based on sound or written down from divine revelation.
"In the beginning was the Word. And the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through hum all things were made; without him nothing was made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it."

with word there is necessarily thought, thought of word and language, prior to all expression when it is expressed in the speakers language. yet christianity, in genesis, and in this passage does not favour the word as written down as this is secondary to authoritative word of god, it is second-hand knowledge, rather than the biblical account of word with god word as god, based on what is heard as expressed.

Yep. Except... reincarnation?

In any case, fun topic.

 

[Knee V]

Jesus is not a "word" that is "spoken" by the Father. The concept of the "Logos" already existed in pre-Christian Greek thought and was commandeered by the Apostles as it was a convenient way to express who Christ is. The word "word" is not the most technically correct translation of "logos". A more thorough way to translate it is "that which is communicated". It can be a single word, or a phrase, or an entire discussion. That makes for a good analogy for how Christ relates to the Father. It is just as Jesus said, "If you have seen me you have seen the Father." Christ is the "express image" of the Father. Just as a word expresses an otherwise unknowable thought, and just as a word, while distinct from the thought, conveys exactly what the thought is, so Christ shows us the Father and allows us to know the Father by virtue of knowing Christ.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Genesis Chapter 3 the voice of God walked in the garden in the cool of the day

this is the logos in the beginning . God spoke forward the voice and with it created everything . this logos as a soundwave is still in a faint sense everywhere in the universe . but trust in him really magnifies it as if he were really there with you .

 

[1Co13]

Jesus is not a "word" that is "spoken" by the Father. The concept of the "Logos" already existed in pre-Christian Greek thought and was commandeered by the Apostles as it was a convenient way to express who Christ is. The word "word" is not the most technically correct translation of "logos". A more thorough way to translate it is "that which is communicated". It can be a single word, or a phrase, or an entire discussion. That makes for a good analogy for how Christ relates to the Father. It is just as Jesus said, "If you have seen me you have seen the Father." Christ is the "express image" of the Father. Just as a word expresses an otherwise unknowable thought, and just as a word, while distinct from the thought, conveys exactly what the thought is, so Christ shows us the Father and allows us to know the Father by virtue of knowing Christ.

Yes Logos is found in graphos. Graphos is all about logos. And then there is Rhema.

Ro 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Ro 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Knee V]

Yes Logos is found in graphos. Graphos is all about logos. And then there is Rhema.

Ro 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Ro 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The difference between "logos" and "rhema" is that "logos" is "word" in the sense of "an idea that is communicated" while "rhema" is "word" in the sense of "a single distinct meaningful element of speech or writing, used with others (or sometimes alone) to form a sentence and typically shown with a space on either side when written or printed," like the "word" dog or the "word" forum.

And yes, both of them can be either written ("graphos", as you said) or spoken.

A guy I once knew (he fancied himself some kind of spiritual mentor) tried to convince me that "logos" is "the written word" and "rhema" is "the spoken word". But that is simply incorrect.

 

[1Co13]

The difference between "logos" and "rhema" is that "logos" is "word" in the sense of "an idea that is communicated" while "rhema" is "word" in the sense of "a single distinct meaningful element of speech or writing, used with others (or sometimes alone) to form a sentence and typically shown with a space on either side when written or printed," like the "word" dog or the "word" forum.

And yes, both of them can be either written ("graphos", as you said) or spoken.

A guy I once knew (he fancied himself some kind of spiritual mentor) tried to convince me that "logos" is "the written word" and "rhema" is "the spoken word". But that is simply incorrect.

"an idea that is communicated" (logos) and a "single distinct meaningful element of speech or writing" (rhema) sound similar in meaning. Maybe rhema can be a part of logos? Either way, logos is written for our learning but it takes the Holy Spirit to help us understand it, i think.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Rhema is a charismatic teaching . logos is the voice of God . Grammah is the written text .

there is the written code and the voice of God .

the harmony is

read the scriptures and listen for God's voice

and

listen for God's voice resembling the scriptures as you live life .

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

"an idea that is communicated" (logos) and a "single distinct meaningful element of speech or writing" (rhema) sound similar in meaning. Maybe rhema can be a part of logos? Either way, logos is written for our learning but it takes the Holy Spirit to help us understand it, i think.

There's a spectrum of meaning. But in general λογος means a full idea whereas ρημα means just a word. The difference is between, say, the idea of John Locke's political theory and the words "John" "Locke's" "political" and "theory."

Both can be communicated either in writing or through speech, and λογος can be communicated to oneself through reflective thought. It is this last part- logos as self-reflection on an idea- that made it a big part of Platonist philosophy, and it is in that sense that John 1:1-14 talks about the Λογος: God's own image of God's own self, the Son, made flesh. John is using his era's greatest philosophical insights in order to help communicate the majesty of the Trinity and the incarnation.

 

[pshun2404]

this is open for discussion regarding John1:1, (comments or criticism are welcome).
this concerns logocentrism in Christian theology and the problem of reincarnation. this comes across as in the beginning god was primarily the word an authoritative voice of god. the problem of incarnation is to explain how a word becomes flesh, jesus (emmanuel). as all word is based on sound or written down from divine revelation.
"In the beginning was the Word. And the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through hum all things were made; without him nothing was made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it."

with word there is necessarily thought, thought of word and language, prior to all expression when it is expressed in the speakers language. yet christianity, in genesis, and in this passage does not favour the word as written down as this is secondary to authoritative word of god, it is second-hand knowledge, rather than the biblical account of word with god word as god, based on what is heard as expressed.

Check out "The Memra"...I found it fascinating that pre-Christian Jewish traditions culminating in the Targums of the 1st and 2nd centuries included this notion.

Paul

 

[granpa]

word of God = Deber-el

Judges 4 NIV - Deborah - Again the Israelites did evil - Bible Gateway