God <<staff edit>> America!

[spinningtutu]

By any chance, has anyone else been following the news stories about Barack Obama and his pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright? If so, I'd love to hear your opinion on what he says. Personally, I agree with Wright 100% and I think America should listen to his prophetic message. He is a modern day prophet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=617eK2XIaLk

"When the Son of Man comes in glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right and the goats at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the King will say to those at His right hand, 'Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.' Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?' And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.' Then He will say to those at His left hand, 'You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?' Then He will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaNBzU6iryo

Every time our country has systematically wronged a Black person (or other person of minority heritage) we have wronged Jesus. Every time we have persecuted a gay person, we have persecuted Jesus. Every time we kill a civilian in Iraq, we kill Jesus. Every bomb that we've ever dropped, has been dropped on Jesus. Every time we've neglected a poor person in this country, we've neglected Jesus. Everytime we've let a prisoner rot away in jail, we've let Jesus rot away. Everytime we've aborted an unborn fetus, we've aborted Jesus. Every immigrant that we've rejected... every poor and marginalized person we've wronged...
Just saying...
God (literally) gives a damn about how we've been abusing and misusing the poor and oppressed in this country...
Let us REPENT and change, and perhaps God will once again "bless America".

 

[ladyt28]

this topic is being discussed in the "politics" debate section - take a look there, ok?

 

[spinningtutu]

can I get away with posting Rev Wright in the politics section?

 

[catlover]

that pastor presents a prospective about America Americans are afraid to face.

Look at what was done to the 400 black men as an experiment to observe what untreated syphlis does?

Maybe the government does treat citizens as less than human?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/may97/tuskegee_5-16.html

 

[Speculative]

Thanks for bringing this up paxigoth. I've been having a fit over all the drama people are creating over this. I also pretty much agree with Rev. Wright (at least the comments I'm aware of).

I think it's tremendously naive to think the U.S. is some righteous, innocent nation. To be sure, there are a lot of great things about the U.S. but there are also a many things that we still need to improve. We've done some horrendous things to our own citizens, and to citizens of foreign countries, and we still do, and we're still dealing with the effects of it.

I know a lot of people are probably more upset with Rev. Wright's delivery than the underlying message, and I can see that, but sometimes you've got to scream to wake up the sleepers.

Now, I don't know everything Jeremiah Wright has ever said, but I can't say I really have too much of a problem with most of the comments that are being quoted so much lateley.

 

[progressivegal]

By any chance, has anyone else been following the news stories about Barack Obama and his pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright? If so, I'd love to hear your opinion on what he says. Personally, I agree with Wright 100% and I think America should listen to his prophetic message. He is a modern day prophet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=617eK2XIaLk

"When the Son of Man comes in glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right and the goats at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the King will say to those at His right hand, 'Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.' Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?' And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.' Then He will say to those at His left hand, 'You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?' Then He will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaNBzU6iryo

Every time our country has systematically wronged a Black person (or other person of minority heritage) we have wronged Jesus. Every time we have persecuted a gay person, we have persecuted Jesus. Every time we kill a civilian in Iraq, we kill Jesus. Every bomb that we've ever dropped, has been dropped on Jesus. Every time we've neglected a poor person in this country, we've neglected Jesus. Everytime we've let a prisoner rot away in jail, we've let Jesus rot away. Everytime we've aborted an unborn fetus, we've aborted Jesus. Every immigrant that we've rejected... every poor and marginalized person we've wronged...
Just saying...
God (literally) gives a damn about how we've been abusing and misusing the poor and oppressed in this country...
Let us REPENT and change, and perhaps God will once again "bless America".

I agree. Seriously.
these ARE the things America is afraid to face. These the things we don't WANT to hear. The man speaks the truth, and the truth is painful.
I do not for second think these represent the views of Obama however, because he could not have come as far politically as he has if that were so. I WISH we had a candidate who had the guts to speak out against things the way Rev. Wright does, but we don't. I like Obama, and I will vote for him, but he clearly is not as "radical" as his former minister. I think it's ridiculous the way the media is "demonizing" Rev. Wright though. He is truly speaking from his heart with a love for God and for ALL God's people. but then nobody ever likes a prophet.
I

 

[CaDan]

"Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh." If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."​

Abraham Lincoln ~ Second Inaugural Address, March 4, 1865.

Lincoln was assassinated on April 14, 1865, 41 days after delivering these words.

Kyrie eleison

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I don't see any difference between Wright's political statements and Farrakhan's. And I can't believe all y'all are defending someone like that.

Dick Morris thinks Obama will weather this crisis. Probably so, but there's no question that being associated with Wright has hurt Obama politically.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

Anyone have a non-video source for this? I'd like to participate in the numerous discussions I've seen on this topic but I won't watch videos on the computer while my kids are up.

 

[spinningtutu]

I don't see any difference between Wright's political statements and Farrakhan's. And I can't believe all y'all are defending someone like that.

Dick Morris thinks Obama will weather this crisis. Probably so, but there's no question that being associated with Wright has hurt Obama politically.

Well, first off, Obama has definately separated himself from both Wright and Farrakhan ~ explicitely condemning their views. And I'm inclined to believe Obama... he's cool and level headed and not the type to express such extreme views...

However, the fact that Obama, as an African prominent figure, has been held accountable for the views of Wright and Farrakhan prove to me that Wright is right (sorry for the pun). The media's treatment of Obama has been incredibly RACIST from the start.

I mean, seriously, we don't treat John McCain like this. Some of the pastors who have endorsed him hold extreme views ~ such as the notion that we should immediately execute all gay people ~ do we hold McCain accountable for every jerk comment an elderly white male makes? Noooo... Some of the right-leaning people McCain has reached out to in hopes of getting their vote have racist connections to the KKK... how come no one is digging up all this "evidence" that McCain is really a KKKer?

Because that ain't how we treat white people. But it is how we treat black people. And that, my friends, is RACISM in a structural, dominating form.

So, this is the second thing I have to say, and I hope you don't think less of me or hate me, but it's what I really believe: Rev Wright is correct, and I'm proud to be a fellow UCCer... Furthermore, I even think Farrakhan is right on, and I have the whateverz to say it.

 

[spinningtutu]

Anyone have a non-video source for this? I'd like to participate in the numerous discussions I've seen on this topic but I won't watch videos on the computer while my kids are up.

In the youtube/media bit era, this is harder... but I will work on this one. I know Rev Wright's church, Trinity UCC, has had some things to say about it...

www.tucc.org

 

[TheManeki]

Yesterday's Slacktivist ( http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2008/03/thatll-preach.html ) has the text and video of Obama's response to the Wright controversy.

 

[CaDan]

Huffington Post has the full text here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/obama-race-speech-read-t_n_92077.html

 

[JulySheMustFly]

Thanks for the extra links.

I think ultimately it isn't what Rev. Wright said that I find difficult to process. It is the platform which he used. I see nothing wrong with him stating his biased political opinion through a variety of different platforms but to do so from the pulpit is a tresspass against the congregations responsibility to form their own political ideals based on how the Holy Spirit is guiding their own personal life.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I mean, seriously, we don't treat John McCain like this. Some of the pastors who have endorsed him hold extreme views ~ such as the notion that we should immediately execute all gay people ~ do we hold McCain accountable for every jerk comment an elderly white male makes? Noooo... Some of the right-leaning people McCain has reached out to in hopes of getting their vote have racist connections to the KKK... how come no one is digging up all this "evidence" that McCain is really a KKKer?

Because that ain't how we treat white people. But it is how we treat black people. And that, my friends, is RACISM in a structural, dominating form.

I don't think so. If McCain were going to the church of one of those extremist pastors, and had been for 20 years, he wouldn't even still be a candidate. The political firestorm would've driven him out of the campaign in disgrace. Obama is being treated better than McCain would've been in similar circumstances.

So, this is the second thing I have to say, and I hope you don't think less of me or hate me, but it's what I really believe: Rev Wright is correct, and I'm proud to be a fellow UCCer... Furthermore, I even think Farrakhan is right on, and I have the whateverz to say it.

I still like you regardless.

But I also think Black Liberation Theology and the Nation of Islam are completely delusional when it comes to understanding anything having to do with race, politics, economics, America or America's role in the world. I already knew you and I had major political differences. But I didn't think we were this far apart.

 

[catlover]

I don't think so. If McCain were going to the church of one of those extremist pastors, and had been for 20 years, he wouldn't even still be a candidate. The political firestorm would've driven him out of the campaign in disgrace. Obama is being treated better than McCain would've been in similar circumstances.

I still like you regardless.

But I also think Black Liberation Theology and the Nation of Islam are completely delusional when it comes to understanding anything having to do with race, politics, economics, America or America's role in the world. I already knew you and I had major political differences. But I didn't think we were this far apart.

That fact that Obama is allegedly treated "better" than McCain doesn't negate the fact that Americans in general are afraid to face the racist society they live in.

I don't blame that pastor for feeling that way. This country is way behind in comparison to Europe on women's rights and minority rights.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Thanks for the extra links.

I think ultimately it isn't what Rev. Wright said that I find difficult to process. It is the platform which he used. I see nothing wrong with him stating his biased political opinion through a variety of different platforms but to do so from the pulpit is a tresspass against the congregations responsibility to form their own political ideals based on how the Holy Spirit is guiding their own personal life.

That too. Using a church so blatantly as a political platform is just wrong, regardless of the politics in question.

That we don't hear a word about politics from the pulpit is one of the things I really love about my church.

 

[catlover]

That too. Using a church so blatantly as a political platform is just wrong, regardless of the politics in question.

That we don't hear a word about politics from the pulpit is one of the things I really love about my church.

Lucky you--I went to a local RC for a turkey dinner and explored right in the front was a magazine promoting the supreme court justice that was voted on a few years back because he was or is "pro-life".

For this last election one church a Protestant church was handing out fotf pamphlets about why G.W was a better candidate than Kerry...

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

That fact that Obama is allegedly treated "better" than McCain doesn't negate the fact that Americans in general are afraid to face the racist society they live in.

I don't blame that pastor for feeling that way. This country is way behind in comparison to Europe on women's rights and minority rights.

If Rev. Wright's views were even close to the truth, we wouldn't be where we are: with either a black man or a woman as the two finalists for the Democratic nomination. And whichever of them is the nominee (probably still Obama), is more likely than not the next president.

Yes, there is still racism in America. But America is not a racist society.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Lucky you--I went to a local RC for a turkey dinner and explored right in the front was a magazine promoting the supreme court justice that was voted on a few years back because he was or is "pro-life".

For this last election one church a Protestant church was handing out fotf pamphlets about why G.W was a better candidate than Kerry...

I'm with you there. Even though those views are more mainstream, and though I did and do prefer Bush over Kerry (but what a sorry pair of options!), it is just as wrong to use a church for that.