God Needs Constant Pleadings to Help Someone?

Radrook · Nov 30, 2016

Why are so many Christians under the impression that we must plead with God to take action in order for him to do the decent thing that any of us would readily without any need for persuasion because it is the decent thing to do? It makes God out to seem rather callous. IMHO

We as Christians don't require those who are needy of mercy, compassion, material assistance, moral support, alleviation of any type mental or physical distress to constantly plead with us for us to help them before we respond. We help them because it is the righteously loving and just thing to do. So why imagine God as any different?

Could it well be that those who imagine God that way are projecting their own tendencies onto the creator?

timewerx · Nov 30, 2016

That's a possibility.

Besides, I don't think Jesus pleaded everytime He prayed. He also gave us instructions how to pray.

Jesus only pleaded once or twice to God one was before the crucifixion, although that was a very hard trial for Him.

RDKirk · Nov 30, 2016

Radrook said:
Why are so many Christians under the impression that we must plead with God to take action in order for him to do the decent thing that any of us would readily without any need for persuasion because it is the decent thing to do? It makes God out to seem rather callous. IMHO

We as Christians don't require those who are needy of mercy, compassion, material assistance, moral support, alleviation of any type mental or physical distress to constantly plead with us for us to help them before we respond. We help them because it is the righteously loving and just thing to do. So why imagine God as any different?

Could it well be that those who imagine God that way are projecting their own tendencies onto the creator?

I believe--and my experience validates it--that if my intention is to do what God wants me to do today, He will ensure I have the resources to do it.

Thus, my main prayer is "What do You want me to do?"

Inasmuch as He knows I procrastinate, He rarely makes anything clear to me more than 24 hours in advance.

More unfortunate is my inconsistency in being honest about it. It's hard for me not to hope that whatever He wants me to do will not interfere with my own plans, and such double-mindedness results in no response from God.

Greg J. · Nov 30, 2016

There's a huge volume of books about prayer. Not particularly speaking to people in this thread, many, many people that participate on this website need to read at least one or two. Prayer is much more than requests to God. I often refer to prayer as talking to God, but that's just the beginning. The actual habit of prayer is much more and doing it leads to much more. It is a subject so deep that it is not possible to learn much about it by anything anyone may write on this web site.

Radrook · Nov 30, 2016

timewerx said:
That's a possibility.

Besides, I don't think Jesus pleaded everytime He prayed. He also gave us instructions how to pray.

Jesus only pleaded once or twice to God one was before the crucifixion, although that was a very hard trial for Him.

Urgent requests for everyone to join in a unified chorus of pleadings seems to assume that a multitude of supplications will finally jolt God from his indifferent complacency where a one meager solitary pleading might most likely fail..

RDKirk · Nov 30, 2016

Radrook said:
What really gets my curiosity is that there urgent requests for everyone to join in a unified chorus of pleadings as if a multitude of supplications will finally jolt God from his indifferent complacency or a reluctance to help where a single pleading will prove futile.

So how do you respond to Acts 4:24-31, in which the congregation prayed together?

Maybe the prayer isn't so much about impacting God's actions as it is about impacting the actions of other spiritual beings (both those who would aid and those who would oppose)?

Radrook · Nov 30, 2016

RDKirk said:
So how do you respond to Acts 4:24-31, in which the congregation prayed together?

Maybe the prayer isn't so much about impacting God's actions as it is about impacting the actions of other spiritual beings (both those who would aid and those who would oppose)?

But that isn't an urgent request or an attempt to make God act based on group prayer. It is the assumption that more means most effective that I am wary about and not just group prayer per se. It assumes God as indifferent or unwilling to act unless constantly and repeatedly cajoled.

Greg J. · Nov 30, 2016

Radrook said:
attempt to make God act based on group prayer

Prayer is not an attempt to make God do something. People with this attitude should not expect God to answer their prayers, although he seems to often do so, anyway.

RDKirk · Nov 30, 2016

Radrook said:
But that isn't an urgent request or an attempt to make God act based on group prayer. It is the assumption that more means most effective that I am wary about and not just group prayer per se. It assumes God as indifferent or unwilling to act unless constantly and repeatedly cajoled.

That's your assumption, and I don't buy your brushing off the prayer of the church in Acts 4 as not being a request for God's action.

timewerx · Nov 30, 2016

Radrook said:
Urgent requests for everyone to join in a unified chorus of pleadings seems to assume that a multitude of supplications will finally jolt God from his indifferent complacency where a one meager solitary pleading might most likely fail..

That sounds like manipulation. God cannot be manipulated.

Mary7 · Dec 1, 2016

Radrook said:
Urgent requests for everyone to join in a unified chorus of pleadings seems to assume that a multitude of supplications will finally jolt God from his indifferent complacency where a one meager solitary pleading might most likely fail..

Oh wow! Finally. The question I have had for many many years. Is my prayer not enough to move God? Why is it that I feel and others feel, that we have to have prayer chains and beg people to pray for situations otherwise the person will not recover or whatever the request is. I really need to understand this.

Radrook · Dec 1, 2016

Mary7 said:
Oh wow! Finally. The question I have had for many many years. Is my prayer not enough to move God? Why is it that I feel and others feel, that we have to have prayer chains and beg people to pray for situations otherwise the person will not recover or whatever the request is. I really need to understand this.

I have very often felt the same way and have asked others to join in. So I am just as bewildered as you. Perhaps it is because we feel that we are somehow to blame for the lack of response and that if someone more worthy than we are joins in then that prayer will have more receptivity? Of course that reasoning doesn't cover the situations where we as humans don't need anyone to ask us in the first place but which we do so spontaneously out of compassion and a sense of moral duty.

In such situations frustration is the first reaction. Then desperation leading to repeated requests. It is all a reflection of our helplessness in the face of what seems to us inevitable and totally out of our control. The response to that frustration is that we should have faith that what God allows he allows for a good reason because he sees far beyond the ultimate consequences of the sequence of events.

So permitting it is his way of responding within the parameters of his infinite wisdom. It is an explanation which demands that we have faith and trust that although God doesn't see to care he really does but in a way which is beyond our finite understanding..

Mateo1041 · Dec 1, 2016

Greg J. said:
There's a huge volume of books about prayer. Not particularly speaking to people in this thread, many, many people that participate on this website need to read at least one or two. Prayer is much more than requests to God. I often refer to prayer as talking to God, but that's just the beginning. The actual habit of prayer is much more and doing it leads to much more. It is a subject so deep that it is not possible to learn much about it by anything anyone may write on this web site.

It's generally been hard for me to understand prayer, but my wife and I adopted two kids from Ukraine last summer and it was incredible the role that prayer played. We had people in multiple churches and across the US praying for us and so much that could have gone wrong didn't. International adoption can be a very trying process. There was one point where we were exhausted on the train ride from Dnipropetrovsk to Kiev and the kids were bouncing off the walls and roaming the train. There just happened to be a team of UNICEF workers right next to us that spoke both English and Russian. They ended up helped us out with the kids for most of the train ride. And they even took the kids and us out to a big arcade on our last night in Ukraine before flying home. It's amazing that when we were are at our last ounce of strength, God stepped in. And we saw that so many other times too!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Radrook · Dec 1, 2016

One ironic thing about prayer for God's help is that very often the ones praying are willing to pray but are not willing to offer the one being prayed for a helping hand but prefer to leave it conveniently and totally in God's hands. I personally prefer a helping hand from a fellow Christian than to have the fellow Christian glibly tell me he will pray on my behalf.

Theo Book · Dec 1, 2016

Radrook said:
Why are so many Christians under the impression that we must plead with God to take action in order for him to do the decent thing that any of us would readily without any need for persuasion because it is the decent thing to do?

Because God already knows what we need. Far too many prayers are sent heavenward, for things to spend upon ourselves. That is NOT God's will. If we pray ACCORDING TO HIS WILL, He hears us.

Radrook said:
It makes God out to seem rather callous. IMHO

God, who supplies our every need "seems callous" if He does not also feed our lusts? WoW!

Radrook said:
We as Christians don't require those who are needy of mercy, compassion, material assistance, moral support, alleviation of any type mental or physical distress to constantly plead with us for us to help them before we respond. We help them because it is the righteously loving and just thing to do. So why imagine God as any different?

Does it ever occur to you, When those needy of mercy, compassion, material assistance, moral support, pray for God to send help, it may be God sent YOU to give that aid?

Consider the true meaning of "God placed that message in earthen vessels." He does not expect vessels of clay to perfectly function; He expects us to perfectly try.

Radrook · Dec 1, 2016

Theo Book said:
Because God already knows what we need. Far too many prayers are sent heavenward, for things to spend upon ourselves. That is NOT God's will. If we pray ACCORDING TO HIS WILL, He hears us.

God, who supplies our every need "seems callous" if He does not also feed our lusts? WoW!

Does it ever occur to you, When those needy of mercy, compassion, material assistance, moral support, pray for God to send help, it may be God sent YOU to give that aid?

Consider the true meaning of "God placed that message in earthen vessels." He does not expect vessels of clay to perfectly function; He expects us to perfectly try.

I never said that praying to satisfy lusts is a proper thing to pray for. Where did you get that idea from?
If someone is praying for help and I have the means to help then I would assume that God sent me to help if indeed the person is deserving of that help. What ever gave you strange idea that I would assume otherwise?
What ever gave you the quaint idea that I am referring to prayers for evil things?

Sine Nomine · Dec 1, 2016

Radrook said:
Why are so many Christians under the impression that we must plead with God to take action in order for him to do the decent thing that any of us would readily without any need for persuasion because it is the decent thing to do? It makes God out to seem rather callous. IMHO

We as Christians don't require those who are needy of mercy, compassion, material assistance, moral support, alleviation of any type mental or physical distress to constantly plead with us for us to help them before we respond. We help them because it is the righteously loving and just thing to do. So why imagine God as any different?

Could it well be that those who imagine God that way are projecting their own tendencies onto the creator?

Yes. We believe that God is a person and he wants us to talk with him and ask for the things that we need/desire. This is no different than other relationships. God however always loves and has an eternal perspective-much as a loving and mature parent sees more of the situation than a child. He always replies, just not as we always want. His answers are always right and he doesn't act inappropriately in response to mass pleading.

At this point, there will now be many verses cited and vocal opinions about diverse topics--trust that he knows what's best and pray as best you can and help others as you are able.

RDKirk · Dec 1, 2016

Theo Book said:
Because God already knows what we need. Far too many prayers are sent heavenward, for things to spend upon ourselves. That is NOT God's will. If we pray ACCORDING TO HIS WILL, He hears us.

God, who supplies our every need "seems callous" if He does not also feed our lusts? WoW!

Does it ever occur to you, When those needy of mercy, compassion, material assistance, moral support, pray for God to send help, it may be God sent YOU to give that aid?

Consider the true meaning of "God placed that message in earthen vessels." He does not expect vessels of clay to perfectly function; He expects us to perfectly try.

It may also be that the help was made available, but the helpers were unwilling to provide it.

One pastor has said, "The Body of Christ has all the resources to support the Body of Christ."

What he meant was that there is enough wealth held in the hands right this moment of persons calling themselves "Christians" to ensure no other Christian on earth is ever hungry, homeless, or naked.

But what so many Christians won't do is take to heart 2 Corinthians 8. In fact, most pastors in America won't even preach it.

Radrook · Dec 1, 2016

Sine Nomine said:
Yes. We believe that God is a person and he wants us to talk with him and ask for the things that we need/desire. This is no different than other relationships. God however always loves and has an eternal perspective-much as a loving and mature parent sees more of the situation than a child. He always replies, just not as we always want. His answers are always right and he doesn't act inappropriately in response to mass pleading.

At this point, there will now be many verses cited and vocal opinions about diverse topics--trust that he knows what's best and pray as best you can and help others as you are able.

The act of praying isn't the issue. The issue is why we believe that many prayers and supplication will finally catch his attention as if the solitary prayers had not. It makes him out to be some petulant being who enjoys seeing his creatures grovel.

RDKirk · Dec 1, 2016

Radrook said:
The act of praying isn't the issue. The issue is why we believe that many prayers and supplication will finally catch his attention as if the solitary prayers had not. It makes him out to be some petulant being who enjoys seeing his creatures grovel.

So don't do it.

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