God is GOOD...not bad.

FrankFaith · Jan 13, 2009

HoneyComb Son, well said. You have Faith. So do I.

Aren't the sins of a father visited on the sons? Those with Faith can hear and be taught by Holy Spirit.

God IS good.

I think we are seeing that Truth cannot be seen by those without Faith, because they are unteachable by Holy Spirit.

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

pinetree said:
NaLuvena said:

Not if we use the correct standard.[/quote
the act of murder is still evil,or robbery..,sure God can use all things for Good..but the joseph verse does not deny it was evil..
Was a crucifiction evil?

Click to expand...

I see you started another thread from this.

By saying murder, you have already decided that the act (technically killing) is wrong.

If God tells someone to kill, and that person kills whomever God says is to be killed, that act of killing cannot be called evil, because God dictated this. We see this happen all the time in the OT.

Robbery is wrong if God does not condone it. If, like the looting Abharam did to the 4 Kings who raided Sodom and Gomorrah in Numbers 21, the act of taking someone else's goods is done with at the directive of God, we cannot say that is evil.

The point is, God is the standard. By definition, He can never do anything evil, and everything that He does is good.

In Acts 11, Peter is criticized by the rest of the Apostles for going to the Gentiles and eating with them. Peter replies and tells them of the Holy Spirit coming upon them, even before they are baptised with water, He concludes by saying:

Acts 11:17

So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?"

That is the exact point here. If God approves, who can disapprove?

FallingWaters · Jan 13, 2009

Isaiah 53:10 ESV Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Hebrews 12:5-8 ESV
5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Hebrews 5:8 ESV Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
pinetree said:

I see you started another thread from this.

By saying murder, you have already decided that the act (technically killing) is wrong.

If God tells someone to kill, and that person kills whomever God says is to be killed, that act of killing cannot be called evil, because God dictated this. We see this happen all the time in the OT.

Robbery is wrong if God does not condone it. If, like the looting Abharam did to the 4 Kings who raided Sodom and Gomorrah in Numbers 21, the act of taking someone else's goods is done with at the directive of God, we cannot say that is evil.

The point is, God is the standard. By definition, He can never do anything evil, and everything that He does is good.

In Acts 11, Peter is criticized by the rest of the Apostles for going to the Gentiles and eating with them. Peter replies and tells them of the Holy Spirit coming upon them, even before they are baptised with water, He concludes by saying:

Acts 11:17

So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?"

That is the exact point here. If God approves, who can disapprove?

Click to expand...

so Pharaoh was not evil?
or did not do evil deeds?
bricks without straw was a loving act?
you inspired my other thread..

The crucifixion was not evil?

so to say evil is not evil,when it is,seems odd..

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

HoneyComb Son said:
NaLuvena, and others dont misundstand me, I know the bible says suffering and glorying in Christ, i know that.

the matter of fact is, how do you know you are right? is your interptation of the bible correct? that is the question

the thing is, you believe what you believe is right, however there are people who believe otherwise, they believe they are right. etc

its suppose to be about love. what you guys are right, if you read the bible I can see how one might believe what you do, heck I was there, still am to a degree. However, I am learning that what I thought was right, is not right at all. are you open to being wrong?

its disheartening to keep people misunderstand me, just because you are right in your eyes does not make it so. I am no bible scholar, but I dont have to be to see you mis use scripture in order to "prove" what you believe.

if you want to believe what you believe so be it. I am not a judge. however, be open to being wrong, heck I could be wrong. in fact I am wrong in many things..lol

However, I see something wrong, and it does not line up with the little i know of scripture. love is love, good is good.

if you want to add evil into good, darkness into light, so be it. but you are Human, we make many mistakes. The Holy Spirit is the teach of Truth. we need to go by God's word, but by the relevation of His Spirit that brings the word to what it is suppose to be. anyone can read the word and think they know the truth, however, you wont Understand it unless The Holy Spirit explains it to you as it suppose to be.

I dont know it all. And I am in need heavily of myself in Hearing The Spirits leading,

but maybe im on the right track, however I know enough from what I read in God's word, that someething is wrong in your teachings of this,

YES God can bring goodness and bring goodness out of evil that has become on you
however He wants good for for you, not harm, He does discipline us, with word, and other ways, but not how you teach, I dont know it all, but what word says to me, from the little I understand it, something is wrong what you say.

The fruit of Spirit is love, gentleness, kindness patience etc. maybe we can use that in weighing what is of God and not. God is love

if you want to believe what you believe, be images of God, then do what you believe to other people..lol see how it goes

It is about love. God, in His love gave His Son to save us. Once we accept this, and believe in Christ, God begins to mould us. This teaching can be very painful, and will seem like suffering when it happens.

Hebrews 12:5-6

5 And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage...erse=4&end_verse=6&version=31&context=context6 because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."

This is what scripture says. If you listen to the Holy Spirit within you, He will also tell you the same thing, that to follow God, we must be willing to let Him conform us to His image.

How do I know I'm right? Well, if I'm wrong, I'm screwed.

I'm betting my life (eternal life) on this, that what God has taught me is the truth.

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

pinetree said:
so Pharaoh was not evil?
or did not do evil deeds?
bricks without straw was a loving act?
you inspired my other thread..

The crucifixion was not evil?

so to say evil is not evil,when it is,seems odd..

Firstly, I am not saying the evil is not evil. I am saying that what we consider evil must be compared to God, if we are to be able to have a proper idea of whether it is evil or not. When we compare any act to any standard other than God, we can easily end up calling evil good, or good evil. We can misjudge because we do not know the entire story behind what someone did.

Pharaoh (the new one who made the Israelites bake bricks without straw) did not love the Israelites like the old Pharaoh that elevated Joseph did.

Consider that act in itself. The lack of love of this Pharaoh, is considered evil, and because of that, we have the events and miracles that God wrought through Moses to free His people from Egypt.

However, if you hate, that in itself is not evil. God is recorded as hating Esau, yet who amongst would say that God does evil by hating Esau?

Pharaoh was evil when compared to God. In fact, EVERYONE is evil when compared to God. Jesus Himself said only God is good.

The crucifixion, in isolation would seem evil. When we consider the entire ramifications of it however, and what God did when Jesus died on the cross, how can we say that it was evil? God did a wonderous, awesome thing when He sent His Son to die, and resurrected Him again from the grave. It was because of that godly display of grace, through love, that we can be saved.

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

Cassidy said:
You don't think you're taking this a bit too personally? We are merely discussing things here.

Who me?

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
Firstly, I am not saying the evil is not evil. I am saying that what we consider evil must be compared to God, if we are to be able to have a proper idea of whether it is evil or not. When we compare any act to any standard other than God, we can easily end up calling evil good, or good evil. We can misjudge because we do not know the entire story behind what someone did.

Pharaoh (the new one who made the Israelites bake bricks without straw) did not love the Israelites like the old Pharaoh that elevated Joseph did.

Consider that act in itself. The lack of love of this Pharaoh, is considered evil, and because of that, we have the events and miracles that God wrought through Moses to free His people from Egypt.

However, if you hate, that in itself is not evil. God is recorded as hating Esau, yet who amongst would say that God does evil by hating Esau?

Pharaoh was evil when compared to God. In fact, EVERYONE is evil when compared to God. Jesus Himself said only God is good.

The crucifixion, in isolation would seem evil. When we consider the entire ramifications of it however, and what God did when Jesus died on the cross, how can we say that it was evil? God did a wonderous, awesome thing when He sent His Son to die, and resurrected Him again from the grave. It was because of that godly display of grace, through love, that we can be saved.

that does not negate the fact that it is evil to nail people to a tree.

I hear evil relativism...

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

pinetree said:
that does not negate the fact that it is evil to nail people to a tree.

I hear evil relativism...

I read those nailed to a tree were cursed......

So how do you decide something is evil, if you don't compare them to God?

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
I read those nailed to a tree were cursed......

So how do you decide something is evil, if you don't compare them to God?

Jeus beacame sin for us,annd the law was nailed there with all it's consequences...

That is all that means.

yes or no..
was it evil to nail a man to a tree?

Come on my clever bro..yes or no!

Maybe we should bring this to my thread,,in all fairness to frank faith..not to derail his thread.

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

pinetree said:
Jeus beacame sin for us,annd the law was nailed there with all it's consequences...

That is all that means.

yes or no..
was it evil to nail a man to a tree?

Come on my clever bro..yes or no!

Maybe we should bring this to my thread,,in all fairness to frank faith..not to derail his thread.

It was not evil to nail Jesus to the tree. That was the will of God. Unless you think God's will is evil....

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
It was not evil to nail Jesus to the tree. That was the will of God.

so your saying the men who drove the nails into his hands,were not doing an evil act?

HoneyComb Son · Jan 13, 2009

God is a jealous God, and one with wrath, but that is all in according what LOVE is

no one is calling God evil, because He is not, what I am asking is do not you see something is wrong with what we or others are saying and believing, I suck at words, i cannot seem to write what I mean, but it comes off as God is some sort of part in our pain and suffering, as if He wants it on us, that is how ya guys come off

with what this thread says, and what people have said, you may not see it yourselves, but your words just say what you believe, its honestly saddening, I know I am not perfect, and should not be debating like this or taking it personal and the like, however, Im sorry to say, what some of you teach and say is the truth, well if your right so be it, however its utter crap, if that is what you see in God, act like that around everyone, and do that to people,

come on, cant you see what you type, its written and speaks for itself, God causes and wants you to suffer, that is what is here! I cannot write it as I want, but its the message and essence that is given off, im sorry I dont care if you say it doesnt, thats there, other people see it, I see it..lol

anyway, God bless

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

Attn: NaLuvena

look,it even says they were wicked..

Luke 24:7
'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.' "

Acts 2:23
This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

pinetree said:
so your saying the men who drove the nails into his hands,were not doing an evil act?

This is what Jesus said regarding His crufixion:

John 19:11

Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

Therefore, the soldiers who drove the nails in, the guards who whipped him and Pilate, were guilty of sin, but not the the extent of those who handed Jesus over.

So, if you don't compare whatever it is you are judging to god, how do you judge correctly, if it is good, or evil?
What the people did to Jesus was evil, but the entire sacrifice was allowed by God for good. God did what He did for our good, and He was pleased to do this to His Son. His Son was willing to go through with it, to save us.

MaxP · Jan 13, 2009

The Lord is my banner said:
I'm not so sure those two things are directly connected - the idolatry and the 40 years wandering. Hmm... I need to re-read that.

But anyway, I think you'll find that throughout that time of wandering they ate and were satisfied, they flourished, they were never sick, and even their clothes didn't wear out.

My bad, I got my scripture confused.
Numbers 14:34

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
This is what Jesus said regarding His crufixion:

John 19:11

Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

Therefore, the soldiers who drove the nails in, the guards who whipped him and Pilate, were guilty of sin, but not the the extent of those who handed Jesus over.

So, if you don't compare whatever it is you are judging to god, how do you judge correctly, if it is good, or evil?
What the people did to Jesus was evil, but the entire sacrifice was allowed by God for good. God did what He did for our good, and He was pleased to do this to His Son. His Son was willing to go through with it, to save us.

well,in the end,it proves the point,they were doing evil.

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

pinetree said:
Attn: NaLuvena

look,it even says they were wicked..

Luke 24:7
'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.' "

Acts 2:23
This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

True, the men to whom Jesus as delivered were wicked. Was the act of God sacrificing His Son evil? Absolutely not.

All I am saying here, is that to correctly judge that something is evil, it must be judged against God.

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

HoneyComb Son said:
God is a jealous God, and one with wrath, but that is all in according what LOVE is

no one is calling God evil, because He is not, what I am asking is do not you see something is wrong with what we or others are saying and believing, I suck at words, i cannot seem to write what I mean, but it comes off as God is some sort of part in our pain and suffering, as if He wants it on us, that is how ya guys come off

with what this thread says, and what people have said, you may not see it yourselves, but your words just say what you believe, its honestly saddening, I know I am not perfect, and should not be debating like this or taking it personal and the like, however, Im sorry to say, what some of you teach and say is the truth, well if your right so be it, however its utter crap, if that is what you see in God, act like that around everyone, and do that to people,

come on, cant you see what you type, its written and speaks for itself, God causes and wants you to suffer, that is what is here! I cannot write it as I want, but its the message and essence that is given off, im sorry I dont care if you say it doesnt, thats there, other people see it, I see it..lol

anyway, God bless

God bless you too.

To cut things down to the bare bones..... does God have a part to play in my suffering?

Yes. He allows it to happen. Sometimes, He causes it to chastise me, or to correct me, when I stray.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
True, the men to whom Jesus as delivered were wicked. Was the act of God sacrificing His Son evil? Absolutely not.

I agree..

So it sounds like sometimes God uses evil men,to do His will.
relativism?

God is GOOD...not bad.

Just don't call me late for dinner!

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