God, guns, guts

[wretched]

God, guns, guts and Isaiah 53:12

The proof text that is misused constantly by "believers" to keep/bear and use firearms is Luke 22:36-40. These inoculated believers purposely misinterpret this passage to change its meaning into condoning violence by believers. This passage in no way condones violence by believers.
It is yet another fulfillment of prophecy in which our Lord frequently declared in the Gospels during various situations. In this case the prophecy fulfilled is Isaiah 53: 9-12. "v. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

Our Lord was to be numbered with the transgressors. The swords presence in the garden made our Lord's arrest legal (at the time of arrest). Peter was rebuked by the Lord for using one of the swords. Using them was never our Lord's intent. He did not come here the first time to destroy men's lives, but to save them. We are commanded to be like Him in these matters and point men to the Savior, not to destroy men's lives.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

It wasn't nearly enough for the self defense of all of the disciples but it was enough for the arrest and fulfillment of Isaiah 53. These swords were never to be used in resistance.

It is anti-Christ to believe that Jesus even excuses, much less condones, encourages, or commands violence to any other human being down here for any reason. Remember the New Testament reveals, explains and abolishes the Old. Yet it is mainly the Old Testament referenced by ignorant men to justify violence for New Testament Believers. EVERYTHING CHANGED WITH JESUS CHRIST OF THE GOSPELS. See our related article: Vail Over the New Testament

There are hundreds of completely ignored passages contained in the Gospels that describes what salvation results in for a true believer, I will only quote a small portion from only the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew with the prayer others may understand. This list is reiterated in Galatians, chapter 5 (fruits of the Spirit).

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Those that are not - won't be there (there is NEVER a middle ground with God). He spits out the lukewarm.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Those that are not - won't

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Those that are not - won't

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Those that are not - won't be called that

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Those that are not won't see the Kingdom of Heaven


"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

There is not and will not be any time in your remaining physical life where it is OK to resist evil or disobey any of our Lord's commands. To do so is sin, to teach others to do so will regulate you to least in Heaven.

Matthew 5: 16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. v 19. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Here is the revealing part you need to study before it is too late. It is all in the context of the Sermon on the Mount.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

The Lord clearly states to turn the other cheek. So if your hireling or commentary says you can defend yourself and carry arms; does that match in any way what our Lord says? Of course not and below is what the Lord says about these men (ravening wolves):

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. The good fruit is the context of this passage which is the Sermon on the Mount.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Many gainsayers in the last days have built huge followings of their own making. Bad fruit bearing bad fruit. Don't confuse their seeming success and high numbers with any blessing from God. Their success is the same as any corporation using marketing to build numbers. None comes from God.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I know most everyone inoculated to Bible Christianity (the typical self identifying born-again believer) has always been taught that this refers to some chaff like catholics. But that is not the context. The context is referring to most if not all of the "self proclaimed" fundamentalists pastors, authors, Doctors and conference speakers known.

I recommend caution when declaring your rights to defend yourself, your family and your home. You are supposed to be the salt of the earth if you claim Christ as Savior. The example of what a Spiritually awakened person is to the world. A product of the Gospel (the real Gospel) not the Lord, Lord false one. You and I were saved to become the exact opposite of what everyone else is in the world. Relying solely on the Holy Spirit and Word of God to swallow our pride and self worth and machismo, pick up the Cross and be crucified with Him.

No one needs to be taught or encouraged to defend themselves or their homes and families. The natural man knows exactly how to do that and does it by fleshly instinct. Jesus teaches clearly that His people are to turn their backs on their fleshly instincts and be like Him. Remember the Words of our Lord and do your best to forget the preacher and commentary doctrines you have been raised on.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. The Spirit of Christ is painstakingly revealed to all of us in the Gospels.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luke insertion here of the same sermon from our Lord)

We need to all ask ourselves daily whether our new life and the church we attend are built on the solid ROCK of Christ's direct teachings or on the sinking sand of wolves in sheep's clothing doctrine.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

Carrying a pistol with the intent to shoot someone in self defense is not Bible Christianity PERIOD.

We were not spared eternal torment to continue to live under Adam's rules and mindset. The Gospel results in the exact opposite of the natural man. One could only pray to be slaughtered for Christ.

If we truly believe the Gospel, we must then follow the Gospel and strive through the Word and prayer unto Christlikeness.

Oh I know the God, guns, guts religion is much easier on the flesh but it is not Christ's way in ANY WAY.

Jesus said be ye doers of the Word and not hearers only; deceiving yourselves.

His Word is the Bread of Life and not a reference for your theology. Follow that link and live.

 

[SusaninBC]

And yet God literally commanded His people to go to war and wipe out entire nations in the OT, and made a point of saying that He never changes, and is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

 

[carp614]

Are you looking for a response or did you just want to write an essay? You've obviously thought this through and made your case.

 

[wretched]

I won't strive or rail friend. It is obvious when responses are emotionally generated from skimming without reading the context of the OP.

 

[aiki]

God, guns, guts and Isaiah 53:12

The proof text that is misused constantly by "believers" to keep/bear and use firearms is Luke 22:36-40. These inoculated believers purposely misinterpret this passage to change its meaning into condoning violence by believers. This passage in no way condones violence by believers.
It is yet another fulfillment of prophecy in which our Lord frequently declared in the Gospels during various situations. In this case the prophecy fulfilled is Isaiah 53: 9-12. "v. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

Our Lord was to be numbered with the transgressors. The swords presence in the garden made our Lord's arrest legal (at the time of arrest). Peter was rebuked by the Lord for using one of the swords. Using them was never our Lord's intent. He did not come here the first time to destroy men's lives, but to save them. We are commanded to be like Him in these matters and point men to the Savior, not to destroy men's lives.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

It wasn't nearly enough for the self defense of all of the disciples but it was enough for the arrest and fulfillment of Isaiah 53. These swords were never to be used in resistance.

Hmmm...I really don't see that you've made a good case for your view in all of this. A lot of what you've written seems to be the result of presuppositions you're bringing to the text. That is, you've already decided upon a pacifist viewpoint and are reading the Luke 22 passage accordingly.

In verse 36, Christ indicates a change in the modus operandi of his disciples that would arise out of his soon departure from them. The disciples would no longer have Jesus with them and this would mean they would have to carry a purse of money, a knapsack (scrip) in which to carry various personal necessities, a sword, and spare clothing. This was in diametric contrast to what Jesus had commanded of his disciples earlier on in Luke 10:3-4 where they were not to carry any of these things with them as they went out preaching that the kingdom of God had come near.

Jesus mentions a sword as part of a list of things the disciples were to include among their common possessions. The sword was not separated out by Jesus from the other items he listed for a special prophecy-fulfilling purpose, but was included as part of the list of useful things the disciples would need for their travels. It seems to me to be reading into the passage the notion that the sword was only mentioned by Jesus in anticipation of an approaching moment in which to fulfill Isaiah 53:12.

Jesus's quotation of Isaiah 53:12 does not appear to me to be an explanation of the need for a sword, but an enigmatic reference to his coming crucifixion - a death generally reserved for criminals (a.k.a - transgressors). He would be "numbered with the transgressors" in this respect, not by the violence Peter enacted in Jesus's defense in Gethsemane. The suffering of Christ in his atonement for sin at Calvary is, after all, the obvious and primary theme of Isaiah 53 and understanding Christ's quotation of verse 12 of the chapter in Luke 22 as a reference to this makes much better sense to me than the obscure idea that verse 12 refers to Peter's rash act with a sword.

It is anti-Christ to believe that Jesus even excuses, much less condones, encourages, or commands violence to any other human being down here for any reason. Remember the New Testament reveals, explains and abolishes the Old. Yet it is mainly the Old Testament referenced by ignorant men to justify violence for New Testament Believers. EVERYTHING CHANGED WITH JESUS CHRIST OF THE GOSPELS. See our related article: Vail Over the New Testament

Romans 13:3-4
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

Here the sword is connected by Paul with execution of divine wrath upon "him who practices evil." Is the sword going to be used to spank the evildoer? Or, perhaps, to knight him? I think not. The sword has only one basic purpose: to cut or pierce a person with the intent to kill them. And this is its clearly implied use in verse 4, it seems to me. Moreover, the "authority" wielding the sword is human which means God has ordained violence upon one human by another, confounding your assertion that He never "condones, encourages, or commands violence to any other human being down here for any reason."

There are hundreds of completely ignored passages contained in the Gospels that describes what salvation results in for a true believer, I will only quote a small portion from only the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew with the prayer others may understand.

You are being pretty hyperbolic here. I don't subscribe to your pacifist views, but I am still well aware of the verses you've cited that, as a non-pacifist, I'm supposedly completely ignoring.

There is not and will not be any time in your remaining physical life where it is OK to resist evil or disobey any of our Lord's commands. To do so is sin, to teach others to do so will regulate you to least in Heaven.

This is both evil and fallacious thinking.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Those that are not - won't be there (there is NEVER a middle ground with God).

It does not follow that, if a person is not poor in spirit, they won't inherit the kingdom of heaven. This verse says who will be in the kingdom but does not say anything about who will not be. If I say, "All thirteen-year-old girls are in grade seven," does it follow that only thirteen-year-old girls are in grade seven? No. There will also be thirteen-year-old boys and maybe the odd fourteen-year-old, too, who has been held back because of poor grades (and, of course, an adult seventh-grade teacher). In the same way, it does not follow that because the poor in spirit will be in heaven that only such people will be there.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Those that are not - won't

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Those that are not - won't

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Those that are not - won't be called that

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Those that are not won't see the Kingdom of Heaven

All of this employs the same non sequitur thinking as above.

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

There is not and will not be any time in your remaining physical life where it is OK to resist evil or disobey any of our Lord's commands. To do so is sin, to teach others to do so will regulate you to least in Heaven.

Nonsense. All of the apostles resisted evil, at times directly and openly disobeying wicked civil authorities in their work as apostles (Acts 5:17-29; 5:40-42 ). Paul and Peter commanded in their letters that false teachers be rebuked and sinning members of the Church be ejected from it (1 Corinthians 5; 1 Timothy 5:20; Titus 1:13; 2:15; Ephesians 5:8-11, etc.). Peter even exercised his apostolic authority in execution of lying Ananias and his wife! (Acts 5:5-11) Are we to turn the other cheek to the devil, submitting passively to his evil assaults upon us? No. We are to submit to God and RESIST the devil. (James 4:7)

"Turning the other cheek" is concerned with receiving insult and not taking the law into one's own hands, not with defending oneself (or others) from serious bodily harm. As far as I'm concerned, it is almost as great an evil to observe, say, a rape in progress and refuse to physically intervene on behalf of the victim as it is to be the rapist himself! "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,” is exactly right.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I know most everyone inoculated to Bible Christianity (the typical self identifying born-again believer) has always been taught that this refers to some chaff like catholics. But that is not the context. The context is referring to most if not all of the "self proclaimed" fundamentalists pastors, authors, Doctors and conference speakers known.

Simply asserting that this is so doesn't make it so. You have offered not a single shred of a reason to accept what you've asserted here. I have never thought that this passage from Matthew 7 was specifically in reference to Roman Catholics. And it is definitely not referring to "'self-proclaimed' fundamentalist pastors, authors, doctors, etc..."
Jesus says very clearly who he is referring to:

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

If those who enter the kingdom of heaven are those who do the will of the Father, those who don't enter are those who do not do the will of the Father. And what is the will of the Father? His First and Great Commandment is to love Him with all of one's being (Matthew 22:36-38). Do those in Matthew 7:21-23 claim to have obeyed this greatest command? No. And so, like all who neglect the First and Great Commandment, they are cast out from Christ's presence. Such people may be found in every corner of Christendom, however, not just among Catholics or fundamentalist believers.

You and I were saved to become the exact opposite of what everyone else is in the world.

This is silly. Even the lost do morally right things. Now, they may not do them from a God-honoring motive, but the basic moral rightness of what they do is still intact. The unsaved firefighter who risks his life to rescue someone from a burning building has done a morally-right thing though he is lost in sin. Ought we to do the exact opposite of the lost firefighter and let the person in the burning building perish? Of course not. I know some extremely generous lost people. Should the saved person be ungenerous, then, so as to be the exact opposite of these lost people in and of the world? Clearly, not.

No one needs to be taught or encouraged to defend themselves or their homes and families.

Tell this to all those who are bullied as children, or who are physically abused by their spouses or relatives, or who let their children be beaten by a drunken boyfriend or girlfriend, and so on. Defending the defenseless, and even oneself, does not always come naturally to everyone.

Jesus teaches clearly that His people are to turn their backs on their fleshly instincts and be like Him.

Yes, be like him who will one day return to earth bearing the sword of divine wrath and judgment, casting all evildoers into outer darkness where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Remember the Words of our Lord and do your best to forget the preacher and commentary doctrines you have been raised on.

Given the very poor way you've handled Scripture and reasoned through things, I have no confidence whatever in taking this advice from you.

 

[BrotherD]

God, guns, guts and Isaiah 53:12

The proof text that is misused constantly by "believers" to keep/bear and use firearms is Luke 22:36-40. These inoculated believers purposely misinterpret this passage to change its meaning into condoning violence by believers. This passage in no way condones violence by believers.
It is yet another fulfillment of prophecy in which our Lord frequently declared in the Gospels during various situations. In this case the prophecy fulfilled is Isaiah 53: 9-12. "v. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

Our Lord was to be numbered with the transgressors. The swords presence in the garden made our Lord's arrest legal (at the time of arrest). Peter was rebuked by the Lord for using one of the swords. Using them was never our Lord's intent. He did not come here the first time to destroy men's lives, but to save them. We are commanded to be like Him in these matters and point men to the Savior, not to destroy men's lives.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

It wasn't nearly enough for the self defense of all of the disciples but it was enough for the arrest and fulfillment of Isaiah 53. These swords were never to be used in resistance.

It is anti-Christ to believe that Jesus even excuses, much less condones, encourages, or commands violence to any other human being down here for any reason. Remember the New Testament reveals, explains and abolishes the Old. Yet it is mainly the Old Testament referenced by ignorant men to justify violence for New Testament Believers. EVERYTHING CHANGED WITH JESUS CHRIST OF THE GOSPELS. See our related article: Vail Over the New Testament

There are hundreds of completely ignored passages contained in the Gospels that describes what salvation results in for a true believer, I will only quote a small portion from only the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew with the prayer others may understand. This list is reiterated in Galatians, chapter 5 (fruits of the Spirit).

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Those that are not - won't be there (there is NEVER a middle ground with God). He spits out the lukewarm.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Those that are not - won't

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Those that are not - won't

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Those that are not - won't be called that

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Those that are not won't see the Kingdom of Heaven


"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

There is not and will not be any time in your remaining physical life where it is OK to resist evil or disobey any of our Lord's commands. To do so is sin, to teach others to do so will regulate you to least in Heaven.

Matthew 5: 16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. v 19. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Here is the revealing part you need to study before it is too late. It is all in the context of the Sermon on the Mount.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

The Lord clearly states to turn the other cheek. So if your hireling or commentary says you can defend yourself and carry arms; does that match in any way what our Lord says? Of course not and below is what the Lord says about these men (ravening wolves):

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. The good fruit is the context of this passage which is the Sermon on the Mount.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Many gainsayers in the last days have built huge followings of their own making. Bad fruit bearing bad fruit. Don't confuse their seeming success and high numbers with any blessing from God. Their success is the same as any corporation using marketing to build numbers. None comes from God.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I know most everyone inoculated to Bible Christianity (the typical self identifying born-again believer) has always been taught that this refers to some chaff like catholics. But that is not the context. The context is referring to most if not all of the "self proclaimed" fundamentalists pastors, authors, Doctors and conference speakers known.

I recommend caution when declaring your rights to defend yourself, your family and your home. You are supposed to be the salt of the earth if you claim Christ as Savior. The example of what a Spiritually awakened person is to the world. A product of the Gospel (the real Gospel) not the Lord, Lord false one. You and I were saved to become the exact opposite of what everyone else is in the world. Relying solely on the Holy Spirit and Word of God to swallow our pride and self worth and machismo, pick up the Cross and be crucified with Him.

No one needs to be taught or encouraged to defend themselves or their homes and families. The natural man knows exactly how to do that and does it by fleshly instinct. Jesus teaches clearly that His people are to turn their backs on their fleshly instincts and be like Him. Remember the Words of our Lord and do your best to forget the preacher and commentary doctrines you have been raised on.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. The Spirit of Christ is painstakingly revealed to all of us in the Gospels.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luke insertion here of the same sermon from our Lord)

We need to all ask ourselves daily whether our new life and the church we attend are built on the solid ROCK of Christ's direct teachings or on the sinking sand of wolves in sheep's clothing doctrine.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

Carrying a pistol with the intent to shoot someone in self defense is not Bible Christianity PERIOD.

We were not spared eternal torment to continue to live under Adam's rules and mindset. The Gospel results in the exact opposite of the natural man. One could only pray to be slaughtered for Christ.

If we truly believe the Gospel, we must then follow the Gospel and strive through the Word and prayer unto Christlikeness.

Oh I know the God, guns, guts religion is much easier on the flesh but it is not Christ's way in ANY WAY.

Jesus said be ye doers of the Word and not hearers only; deceiving yourselves.

His Word is the Bread of Life and not a reference for your theology. Follow that link and live.

I agree my friend. A gun is a device that is used to kill. What did Christ say to John when he wanted him to rain down fire from heaven because of the Samaritans rejecting him:
Luke 9:51-56
51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

This is the only sword one should have:
Ephesians 6:17 KJV — And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Hebrews 4:12 KJV — For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

This is the only offensive weapon one should have.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And yet God literally commanded His people to go to war and wipe out entire nations in the OT, and made a point of saying that He never changes, and is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Romans 12:19
KJ21
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,saith the Lord.”
ASV
Avenge not yourselves, beloved, but give place unto the wrath of God: for it is written, Vengeance belongeth unto me; I will recompense, saith the Lord.
AMP
Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave the way open for God’s wrath [and His judicial righteousness]; for it is written [in Scripture], “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.
AMPC
Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave the way open for [God’s] wrath; for it is written, Vengeance is Mine, I will repay (requite), says the Lord.
BRG
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
CSB
Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for God’s wrath, because it is written, Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord.
CEB
Don’t try to get revenge for yourselves, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath. It is written, Revenge belongs to me; I will pay it back, says the Lord.
CJB
Never seek revenge, my friends; instead, leave that to God’s anger; for in the Tanakh it is written, “Adonai says, ‘Vengeance is my responsibility; I will repay.’”
CEV
Dear friends, don’t try to get even. Let God take revenge. In the Scriptures the Lord says, “I am the one to take revenge and pay them back.”

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="wretched, post: 74456697, member: 420326"]God, guns, guts and Isaiah 53:12

The proof text that is misused constantly by "believers" to keep/bear and use firearms is Luke 22:36-40. These inoculated believers purposely misinterpret this passage to change its meaning into condoning violence by believers. This passage in no way condones violence by believers.
It is yet another fulfillment of prophecy in which our Lord frequently declared in the Gospels during various situations. In this case the prophecy fulfilled is Isaiah 53: 9-12. "v. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

Our Lord was to be numbered with the transgressors. The swords presence in the garden made our Lord's arrest legal (at the time of arrest). Peter was rebuked by the Lord for using one of the swords. Using them was never our Lord's intent. He did not come here the first time to destroy men's lives, but to save them. We are commanded to be like Him in these matters and point men to the Savior, not to destroy men's lives.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

It wasn't nearly enough for the self defense of all of the disciples but it was enough for the arrest and fulfillment of Isaiah 53. These swords were never to be used in resistance.

It is anti-Christ to believe that Jesus even excuses, much less condones, encourages, or commands violence to any other human being down here for any reason. Remember the New Testament reveals, explains and abolishes the Old. Yet it is mainly the Old Testament referenced by ignorant men to justify violence for New Testament Believers. EVERYTHING CHANGED WITH JESUS CHRIST OF THE GOSPELS. See our related article: Vail Over the New Testament

There are hundreds of completely ignored passages contained in the Gospels that describes what salvation results in for a true believer, I will only quote a small portion from only the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew with the prayer others may understand. This list is reiterated in Galatians, chapter 5 (fruits of the Spirit).

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Those that are not - won't be there (there is NEVER a middle ground with God). He spits out the lukewarm.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Those that are not - won't

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Those that are not - won't

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Those that are not - won't be called that

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Those that are not won't see the Kingdom of Heaven


"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

There is not and will not be any time in your remaining physical life where it is OK to resist evil or disobey any of our Lord's commands. To do so is sin, to teach others to do so will regulate you to least in Heaven.

Matthew 5: 16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. v 19. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Here is the revealing part you need to study before it is too late. It is all in the context of the Sermon on the Mount.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

The Lord clearly states to turn the other cheek. So if your hireling or commentary says you can defend yourself and carry arms; does that match in any way what our Lord says? Of course not and below is what the Lord says about these men (ravening wolves):

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. The good fruit is the context of this passage which is the Sermon on the Mount.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Many gainsayers in the last days have built huge followings of their own making. Bad fruit bearing bad fruit. Don't confuse their seeming success and high numbers with any blessing from God. Their success is the same as any corporation using marketing to build numbers. None comes from God.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I know most everyone inoculated to Bible Christianity (the typical self identifying born-again believer) has always been taught that this refers to some chaff like catholics. But that is not the context. The context is referring to most if not all of the "self proclaimed" fundamentalists pastors, authors, Doctors and conference speakers known.

I recommend caution when declaring your rights to defend yourself, your family and your home. You are supposed to be the salt of the earth if you claim Christ as Savior. The example of what a Spiritually awakened person is to the world. A product of the Gospel (the real Gospel) not the Lord, Lord false one. You and I were saved to become the exact opposite of what everyone else is in the world. Relying solely on the Holy Spirit and Word of God to swallow our pride and self worth and machismo, pick up the Cross and be crucified with Him.

No one needs to be taught or encouraged to defend themselves or their homes and families. The natural man knows exactly how to do that and does it by fleshly instinct. Jesus teaches clearly that His people are to turn their backs on their fleshly instincts and be like Him. Remember the Words of our Lord and do your best to forget the preacher and commentary doctrines you have been raised on.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. The Spirit of Christ is painstakingly revealed to all of us in the Gospels.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luke insertion here of the same sermon from our Lord)

We need to all ask ourselves daily whether our new life and the church we attend are built on the solid ROCK of Christ's direct teachings or on the sinking sand of wolves in sheep's clothing doctrine.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

Carrying a pistol with the intent to shoot someone in self defense is not Bible Christianity PERIOD.

We were not spared eternal torment to continue to live under Adam's rules and mindset. The Gospel results in the exact opposite of the natural man. One could only pray to be slaughtered for Christ.

If we truly believe the Gospel, we must then follow the Gospel and strive through the Word and prayer unto Christlikeness.

Oh I know the God, guns, guts religion is much easier on the flesh but it is not Christ's way in ANY WAY.

Jesus said be ye doers of the Word and not hearers only; deceiving yourselves.

His Word is the Bread of Life and not a reference for your theology. Follow that link and live.[/QUOTE
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Jesus rested His Own Life in the Hands and Care of the Father in heaven all the time.
So much more should we do, if we are following Him, as His permanent disciples and as His "little children"....

 

[Saint Jared Bell]

He who lives by the sword, will die by the sword. I never found exception to that in what God said. So if you live by your sword, you will indeed physically die by your sword.

 

[aiki]

This a 3-year-old thread.