Nothing. The philosophical conversation around "God" is about the nature of the beginning. If something created or came before what is being contemplated, then you aren't thinking of God.
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Nothing. The philosophical conversation around "God" is about the nature of the beginning. If something created or came before what is being contemplated, then you aren't thinking of God.So what are you trying to say? If your God isn't infinite, then who created him? (otherwise, apparently, he is infinite in time)
No, I don't think that that is true.
world - Wiktionary
World as the "planet earth" is one definition. There are more. Amongst them my use.
(Ken reply) I looked up the definition you posted and I didn't see a definition of world as "all that exists". I think that argument failed.
Again not quite true. The universe as "all that exists" is one definition. Another one is, (approximately) "this time-space continuum".
universe - Wiktionary
But that is all just semantics.
(Ken reply) I looked up your definition of universe, and again I saw nothing that contridicts my claim that the Universe is"all that exists"; again fail.
By following what the definition of "all that exists" demands. All that is, was, will be. All of it.
Here is your problem. Why can't I make up another solution that is also infinite? Can I give it whatever qualities I want? FSM is also eternal and infinite.Nothing. The philosophical conversation around "God" is about the nature of the beginning. If something created or came before what is being contemplated, then you aren't thinking of God.
You can make up whatever you want, with whatever qualities you would like. The issue is dealing with the scale of a number that isn't possible. An infinite amount of anything seems impossible to achieve. You need to explain your reasoning behind how you think it could be possible for a universe or FSM to have existed an infinite amount of years.Here is your problem. Why can't I make up another solution that is also infinite? Can I give it whatever qualities I want? FSM is also eternal and infinite.
Yes I believe God still exists and acts today. During the conversation I have been arguing for his activity being constant since the beginning of the universe.<staff edit>
I didnt respond to your red herring because it is irrelevant to this discussion. This discussion is about your claims that the Christian God is outside time, constant and unchanging and now youve claimed that it caused the Big Bangnone of which youve supported with a single shred of sound evidence or a single sound argument. Please stop dragging red herrings through the conversation and start establishing the validity or truth of your claims. You continue to evade every request to do that.Would you please respond to the question I asked about the nature of the laws? Or is that something you need to dodge since you haven't thought it out yet?
So do you believe it answers prayers? Doing so would be magic.Yes I believe God still exists and acts today. During the conversation I have been arguing for his activity being constant since the beginning of the universe.
Religious faith is nothing more than belief without sound evidence or sound reasoning, unless, of course, you can provide some sound evidence or sound arguments to establish the validity or truth of those claims. Can you do that? If so then please do. Prove that the Christian God created the Big Bang, the Earth and life. Prove that it fathered a son. Prove that it performs miracles and answers prayers. But before you do any of that, prove that it exists at all. If you cant do that then your religious beliefs are no better than superstitionbelief resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or a false conception of causation.No, I don't believe in a magic being. The stories in the NT were considered acts of faith, not acts of a magic man in the sky granting wishes. Same thing with the virgin birth. That was about faith, not a genie banging a virgin and making a super baby.
(Ken reply) I looked up the definition you posted and I didn't see a definition of world as "all that exists".
I think that argument failed.
again fail.
(ken reply) I agree the universe is all that is, was, will be; all of it. So where am I trying to have it both ways;
and how does this proove that the universe is outside of time as you claimed on page 14?
Yes I pointed out to you early that there wouldnt be any proof. But you are working with such flawed understandings of these concepts, why that would be, hasnt gotten thru to you yet. Thats mainly due to I cant explain anything if I dont know what you already believe but figuring that out is red herring questions to you.I didnt respond to your red herring because it is irrelevant to this discussion. This discussion is about your claims that the Christian God is outside time, constant and unchanging and now youve claimed that it caused the Big Bangnone of which youve supported with a single shred of sound evidence or a single sound argument. Please stop dragging red herrings through the conversation and start establishing the validity or truth of your claims. You continue to evade every request to do that.
I wasnt misunderstanding. I was asking you what your opinion was and you think they are just representative of the behavior of matter correct? They dont actually exist? All you believe in is stuff that can move in the universe. And has it been in movement for an infinite amount of years, that are also an infinite amount of days long?You asked, What is the nature of these laws and how do they have control over matter? If you want to learn about physical laws then do some reading yourselfit doesnt belong in this discussion. The first misunderstanding you need to correct is that they are not prescriptive, but descriptive.
Nope. It is faith that is being explained as the source of the miracles in the NT, not a guy in the sky doing requests.So do you believe it answers prayers? Doing so would be magic.
If you understood the concepts in discussion you would know why proof hasnt been provided.During this conversation, youve done nothing but evade requests for you to establish the validity or truth of your claims.
Maybe for many today on many issues but Christian faith in the eternal side back then initially came from reason. The reason was that our senses were limited to show us only what was in flux but reason told us that there were aspects that were constant in the universe.Religious faith is nothing more than belief without sound evidence or sound reasoning, unless, of course, you can provide some sound evidence or sound arguments to establish the validity or truth of those claims. Can you do that? If so then please do. Prove that the Christian God created the Big Bang, the Earth and life. Prove that it fathered a son. Prove that it performs miracles and answers prayers. But before you do any of that, prove that it exists at all. If you cant do that then your religious beliefs are no better than superstitionbelief resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or a false conception of causation.
Maybe God is something with super-symmetry but zero entropy and not subject to an arrow of time.
Maybe God is something with super-symmetry but zero entropy and not subject to an arrow of time.
I’m not asking about the NT, I’m asking you what you believe right now. Do you believe this God of yours answers your prayers? Do you believe the Christian God answers other Christians’ prayers in the present?Nope. It is faith that is being explained as the source of the miracles in the NT, not a guy in the sky doing requests.
Please spare me your misplaced condescension. I find it particularly ironic that you accuse me of childish beliefs when you are the one who believes in what is effectively an imaginary friend despite a complete lack of sound evidence or sound arguments.Your understanding of the word God needs to be updated from a child’s understanding of a guy in the sky to a philosophers understanding of the source of the universe. I don’t need to provide proof of anything other than point out to you that you sound ridiculous with the understanding of the concepts you are working with and you need to educate yourself on the conversation that was going on within philosophy centuries before and after Jesus’ birth.
No. Again, the miracles are brought about by faith.Im not asking about the NT, Im asking you what you believe right now. Do you believe this God of yours answers your prayers? Do you believe the Christian God answers other Christians prayers in the present?
I apologize about the condensation but it isn't misplaced. You have the same understanding of God you would find in a child of seven years at Sunday school. I'm not sure of your actual age but you haven't updated your understanding of the word God since childhood.Please spare me your misplaced condescension. I find it particularly ironic that you accuse me of childish beliefs when you are the one who believes in what is effectively an imaginary friend despite a complete lack of sound evidence or sound arguments.
Do you really expect us to believe that Christians today think of their God only in purely philosophical terms? Are you serious? You need to look at the actual data (2.5 MB PDF) and see how Christians today actually think and behave.
In the U.S. today, 80% of Christians are absolutely certainnot just fairly certain, but absolutely certainthat their God is real despite a complete lack of any sound evidence or sound arguments to support their belief. Over two thirds of them are convinced that their God is a person with whom they can have a relationship not just some impersonal force that caused the Big Bang. The vast majority of Christians hold the comforting belief that they will never really die. Over 95% of Christians pray to this God of theirs and 80% of them really believe they receive definite answers to specific prayers. Over 80% of Christians believe that miracles still happen today as they did in the past and over three quarters of them actually believe that angels and demons are active in the world today.
I have been trying to. Have you been following the conversation and have some questions I should clarify?Feel free to share that with us.
I asked you do you believe this God of yours answers your prayers or the Christian God answers other Christians prayers in the present. From your answer above, I take it that you dont believe the Christian God answers your prayers or any other Christians prayers. What other Christian beliefs dont you hold? Do you believe the Christian God created all things? Do you believe the Christian God fathered a son? Do you believe miracles still happen today as they did in the past? Do you believe angels and demons are active in the world today? Im guessing from your comments below that you dont believe these things, but could you please confirm it one way or the other.No. Again, the miracles are brought about by faith.
Your condescension is misplaced because it is directed at me, but what I gave you isnt my understanding of God. As I just showed you, the understanding of God that you describe as being that of a seven-year-old is not my understanding, but the understanding of the vast majority of Christians in the U.S. today and many who contribute to these forums.I apologize about the condensation but it isn't misplaced. You have the same understanding of God you would find in a child of seven years at Sunday school. I'm not sure of your actual age but you haven't updated your understanding of the word God since childhood.
The link is to a PDF. Do you have Acrobat Reader correctly installed? If you are interested in reading about how the majority of Christians think and behave then go here. Click on the tab below the Reports heading to go to Report 2: Religious Beliefs & Practices / Social & Political Views then download the Full Report from the column on the right.Link didn't work for me but what the majority thinks about God is irrelevant. 95 percent haven't read the Bible. 99 percent haven't read any of the Church Fathers. And 99.9 percent haven't read enough Plato to have an understanding of the philosophy of the time. (just a guess, not formal survey.) If you want to argue against God then it needs to be against the most informed and rational understanding. Not the common superstitions found amongst the uneducated because then you aren't actually arguing against God, just those particular understandings of God.
I dont think Ive ever found someone responding to the ideology presented in those Heisenberg quotes. Explain how that would prove the Christian God is real.Did you ever find someone responding to the ideology presented in those Heisenberg quotes that you agree with?
world - Wiktionary
First entry:
1. (with “the”Second entry:Human collective existence; existence in general.
2. The Universe.Note the capital U. Definition of Universe (capital U):
1. The sum of everything that exists in the cosmos, including time and space itself.Universe - Wiktionary
Also, your own words:
I define the Universe as "all that exists"
(Ken reply) I looked up your definition of universe, and again I saw nothing that contridicts my claim that the Universe is"all that exists"; again fail.
If you expect to be contradicted that is your problem. I said that I would refer to "all that exists" as world. The word universe I would use to refer ideally this space-time continuum. Other such entities would be called parallel universe, or some such. Then there is also the word multiverse. But again, that's just me.
What you do, on the other hand ...
You does not necessarily mean you, you know.
That follows from the definition. There is nothing to prove.
I have been trying to. Have you been following the conversation and have some questions I should clarify?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?