God dwells in darkness

[graysparrow]

1Ki 8:12 Then spoke Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

There was I, studiying the history of the kingdom of Israel, that I came to find the above passage. And you know this is one of those verses that 'grab you'. Look Salomon's temple is ready, as great as it could be built on Earth, A temple God has blessed and all Israel and even foreigners have worked very hard to build and when they are about for the grand opening what does God do? Appear like a thick cloud.



We cannot get a hold in God. Nothing we do will be enough to hold Him. And yet...



Luk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Luk 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
Luk 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
(Luk 2:29-32)


God came to free us and now we are candles, candles that should pierce darkness... Jesus came for the sinners... darkness, for the mourners... darkness, for the poor... darkness, for those who have lost hope.... darkness, for the sick... darkness

and in the darkness of the sewers and garas, back alleys, cold nights and hate...

And guess what? When we put our candle in those dark places and our light starts to shine we will find Jesus who was already there, waiting for us... because He dwelss in the thick darkness.

(References from the KJV but I actually studied it in a Reina-Valera )

In Christ
Miguel,

 

[justified]

why are there so many "...." in so many posts on this forum?

...



It's because many people just string together sort-of connected thoughts rather than create an cogent argument.

What is your connection between the passage in Kings and the NT idea of God and Christians as light?

 

[graysparrow]

The ... aka as ellipsis has two main uses
http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/doc/punctuation/node40.html#SECTION000106000000000000000

The conection is easy to make, as it is hinted in the OP. God dwells in our darkness, but as light.

 

[graysparrow]

The level of hostility in the forums seems only to be rising.

 

[justified]

The level of hostility in the forums seems only to be rising.

Strong disagreement with what I view to be poor exegesis of scripture should not be considered hostility. I argue so strongly because I am concerned about the way we understand this text. It doesn't mean I think you are dumb. Just wrong. And maybe occasionally a lazy exegete.

I simply want people who study scripture to do so the way they study other things. I know many Christians who will spend amazing amounts of time researching politics and marketing for their jobs, but when it comes to scripture they pay no attention to research.

There is no real connection between the two passages you mentioned.. There is no mention of God as light in the first passage, nor is that idea implicit in much of the First Testament. The darkness/light motif comes probably from a combination of Isaiah "a people in darkness have seen a great light..." and from Hellenistic metaphoric language. The cloud language of the priestly tradition has little to do with this.

 

[Sephania]

1Ki 8:12 Then spoke Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

There was I, studiying the history of the kingdom of Israel, that I came to find the above passage. And you know this is one of those verses that 'grab you'. Look Salomon's temple is ready, as great as it could be built on Earth, A temple God has blessed and all Israel and even foreigners have worked very hard to build and when they are about for the grand opening what does God do? Appear like a thick cloud.



We cannot get a hold in God. Nothing we do will be enough to hold Him. And yet...



Luk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Luk 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
Luk 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
(Luk 2:29-32)


God came to free us and now we are candles, candles that should pierce darkness... Jesus came for the sinners... darkness, for the mourners... darkness, for the poor... darkness, for those who have lost hope.... darkness, for the sick... darkness

and in the darkness of the sewers and garas, back alleys, cold nights and hate...

And guess what? When we put our candle in those dark places and our light starts to shine we will find Jesus who was already there, waiting for us... because He dwelss in the thick darkness.

(References from the KJV but I actually studied it in a Reina-Valera )

In Christ
Miguel,

This is very nice Miguel, Indeed we should not hid it under a bushel, nu?

 

[graysparrow]

Strong disagreement with what I view to be poor exegesis of scripture should not be considered hostility. I argue so strongly because I am concerned about the way we understand this text. It doesn't mean I think you are dumb. Just wrong. And maybe occasionally a lazy exegete.

I simply want people who study scripture to do so the way they study other things. I know many Christians who will spend amazing amounts of time researching politics and marketing for their jobs, but when it comes to scripture they pay no attention to research.

There is no real connection between the two passages you mentioned.. There is no mention of God as light in the first passage, nor is that idea implicit in much of the First Testament. The darkness/light motif comes probably from a combination of Isaiah "a people in darkness have seen a great light..." and from Hellenistic metaphoric language. The cloud language of the priestly tradition has little to do with this.

Supposing there is a priestly tradition at all, which is as you should know, a hypothesis. Making interpratations based on hypothesis which are still been researched I think it is something we should only do with extreme care.

Even if there have been the J,E,D and P tradition what we do know iis that we have a complete text that it is to be interpreted as such.

Secondly the interpretation of Isaiah I am using is quite in line with the one Luke was using. Thirdly maybe God was not seen as light in much of the OT. However it is seen as light in the Exodus when He appeared to Israel as a pillar of fire to give them light Exo 13:21

Exo 13:21 Now the LORD was going before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them in the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel day or night [NET]

Which is pretty relevant as it is the same cloud of the tent of the meeting.

Last and most importantly, even if my exegesys is poor, why can't you express your disagrement in a more charitable way? Are you really expecting most people to even know the basics of the documentary hypothesis?

 

[graysparrow]

This is very nice Miguel, Indeed we should not hid it under a bushel, nu?

It's that nu a typo or you can speak Romanian

 

[Sephania]

Nu, is Yiddish.

 

[graysparrow]

It happens to be Romanian, too

 

[Optimax]

God dwelt in thick darkness in OT times because or His Glory. If he appeared to man without clothing himself to diffuse His glory it would have burnt them to a crisp.

Consider these verses.

Ex 33:18-34:1
18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts : but my face shall not be seen.