God did not create evil.

r3b0rn · Sep 3, 2008

Hismessenger said:
I have a query for those who do not understand that God created Evil for His purpose.

In the book of Job, it says there came a day when the angels came before God and Satan came with them. Scripture says that the fallen angels were locked away in chains and darkness until the time of the end. How is it that Satan came with them.

There is a answer. Does anyone know it? It will surprize many and confirm to many the truth.

hismessenger

Job is a parable?

Note: That is a question, not a statement. I've been suspecting that it is one, ever since I questioned how the writer knew that Satan was up there talking to God.

Hismessenger · Sep 7, 2008

Because the writer was God Himself, through man who was fulfilling the purpose for which God had created Him for.

hismessenger

Rick Otto · Dec 16, 2008

Yeah, as Isaiah said, God is the creator of evil.

Minds recoil at the idea, because they cannot conceive that God did it for good, not evil.

It still surprises me a little how many people do not consider motivation when characterizing an action.

Schismist · Dec 28, 2008

There are two choices as everyone knows:
1) God created evil.
2) God did not create evil.

If #2 is correct, evil exists/existed/will exist infinitely. There are then two problems with that. The first is that evil is therefore omnipotent. The second is that evil will exist forever, which God clearly says is not the case. (Revelation 21:4 KJV)

If #1 is correct, God created evil and because he is not bound by his creation, he is not bound by evil. You must also understand that God has a reason for evil's creation.

Therefore and nevertheless, God created evil.

Hismessenger · Dec 29, 2008

Very simply and well put Schismist. May god add a blessing to you for your oracle of His truth.

hismessenger

AmericanCatholic · Jan 1, 2009

Without the sustaining power of the creator, even Evil could not exsist.

Please explain your resolution to the inherent and obvious contradiction that a perfectly good being knowingly and willingly created and practices evil.

If #2 is correct, evil exists/existed/will exist infinitely. There are then two problems with that. The first is that evil is therefore omnipotent. The second is that evil will exist forever, which God clearly says is not the case. (Revelation 21:4 KJV)

If God did not create evil, why will it exist infinitely?

Rick Otto · Jan 2, 2009

AmericanCatholic said:
Please explain your resolution to the inherent and obvious contradiction that a perfectly good being knowingly and willingly created and practices evil.

If God did not create evil, why will it exist infinitely?

I doubt it will,... but Please cease your obviously inherently contradictory assumption that a perfectly good being willfully & knowingly created evil without a good reason. And please stop extending the OP statement from "created" to "practices".

Rick Otto · Jan 2, 2009

Schismist said:
There are two choices as everyone knows:
1) God created evil.
2) God did not create evil.

If #2 is correct, evil exists/existed/will exist infinitely. There are then two problems with that. The first is that evil is therefore omnipotent. The second is that evil will exist forever, which God clearly says is not the case. (Revelation 21:4 KJV)

If #1 is correct, God created evil and because he is not bound by his creation, he is not bound by evil. You must also understand that God has a reason for evil's creation.

Therefore and nevertheless, God created evil.

AC, re-read this post. I emboldended the parts that address your questions.
If evil, which we agree exists, is uncreated, that means it has no beginning & therefore has no end.

AmericanCatholic · Jan 2, 2009

AC, re-read this post. I emboldended the parts that address your questions.

If God created evil, then God being perfectly good, makes evil good. That is the contradiction that remains unaddressed. A separate question is whether or not God imposes His will upon evil, which have I argued previously has no inherent purpose.

And please stop extending the OP statement from "created" to "practices".

Another poster claimed that God "sustains" evil, just as He sustains the whole of the universe. If God "sustains" evil, He practices evil.

If evil, which we agree exists, is uncreated, that means it has no beginning & therefore has no end.

It is an assumption to claim that a thing that has no beginning necessarily has no end.

Rick Otto · Jan 2, 2009

quote=AmericanCatholic; If God created evil, then God being perfectly good, makes evil good.

That is either ill-spoken or plain nonsense.
He doesn't "make evil good". He uses it for good.

Ge 50:20 - But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

That is the contradiction that remains unaddressed.

It wasn;t even a coherent idea, much less a contradiction.

A separate question is whether or not God imposes His will upon evil, which have I argued previously has no inherent purpose.

Evil isn't a person. It can't be "imposed upon".

Another poster claimed that God "sustains" evil, just as He sustains the whole of the universe. If God "sustains" evil, He practices evil.

Not necessarily.

It is an assumption to claim that a thing that has no beginning necessarily has no end.

Yes it is. A coherent assumption. Learn how to make one.

AmericanCatholic · Jan 2, 2009

He doesn't "make evil good". He uses it for good.

That is a far cry from what others have claimed. Imposing one's own value upon a thing (i.e. using it) is quite different from creating and sustaining that same thing. I agree that God uses evil for his own purposes, but that does not necessarily presuppose that God created and/or sustains evil. It only inherently indicates that God has greater power than evil to usurp whatever purposes for which evil has been designed (if any). In this regard, it is plausible that evil has no inherent purpose, which provides a clear explanation why evil leads to death. You are making an inference (that God necessarily created evil because He uses it) while not providing any justification for that assumption. You are further avoiding the contradiction inherent in an all-powerful perfectly good being creating and sustaining that which is not perfect or good. My argument resolves the apparent contradiction.

Yes it is. A coherent assumption.

When an assumption is challenged, it is necessary to examine why the assumption is valid. So -- please explain why your assumption that a thing with no beginning necessarily has no end is a valid one to make.

Evil isn't a person. It can't be "imposed upon".

When an object is used for another thing's value, it is imposed upon. The difference between God and evil, I am arguing, is that God is value-creating while evil has no inherent value. God, being all-powerful, is able to create and impose His values (that which is good) upon evil.

Hismessenger · Jan 2, 2009

Evil is a created thing and as one poster put it, God is not bound by what is created for He can remove it at any time and will in the millineum Reign. Then he will release it again to see who is for real and who is counterfeit, not before Him for he already knows ,but before man. He will expose the imposters.

Evil has a purpose in the creation or else it could not would not be here. God said that everything that He created was good. Not in and of itself but to it's purpose. That is where most fall short in understanding.

hismessenger

AmericanCatholic · Jan 2, 2009

Evil is a created thing

That is the central point of dispute. The rest of your post relies upon your first statement; an assumption that not all here accept as valid.

Hismessenger · Jan 3, 2009

What can exist in this creation without the sustaining power of the creator. Can Evil of itself create itself from nothing. Is God not the only everlasting being. If He did not create it as part of this creation, then where fourth did it come. If you can answer that, then you have cause to argue. But the truth is you can't answer it and I don't expect to see any attempt at an answer. You speak against what is valid without valid reasoning to back it up.

hismessenger

Hismessenger · Jan 3, 2009

One last point. If there were no creation for evil to operate in, Where would evil be?

If you spell the word evil backwards guess what it spells. LIVE

hismessenger

AmericanCatholic · Jan 3, 2009

What can exist in this creation without the sustaining power of the creator.

It is an assumption that evil requires anything to sustain itself, or that it is an inherent part of 'creation'. The fundamental contradiction of an all-powerful, perfectly good being creating and sustaining evil remains unresolved. A contradiction is commonly accepted as an indicator that a particular belief is false.

Can Evil of itself create itself from nothing.

Is it necessary for evil to have been 'created' in the sense that it is a direct product of God's work?

Is God not the only everlasting being.

Is evil everlasting, a being, or an everlasting being?

If He did not create it as part of this creation, then where fourth did it come.

Evil, having not been created, has no inherent purpose. It exists as a consequence of a will that rejects God, "sustaining" in the hole that is in the heart of men. It is manifested in the human will.

But the truth is you can't answer it and I don't expect to see any attempt at an answer.

I just did and you should re-evaluate your expectations.

If you spell the word evil backwards guess what it spells. LIVE

So what? Is it the same in Aramaic, Latin, Hebrew, or any other hundreds of languages?

Hismessenger · Jan 3, 2009

You didn't answer the question. All you did was try to perry the question which you can't answer with another question. the question remains unanswered. THe question is

If there were no creation for evil to operate in, Where would evil be?

Answer it if you can and you can if you accept the evident the truth.

hismessenger

AmericanCatholic · Jan 3, 2009

You didn't answer the question.

You say that as if you asked only one question. Why not address my argument? I'll repost it case you innocently missed it: Evil, having not been created, has no inherent purpose. It exists as a consequence of a will that rejects God, "sustaining" in the hole that is in the heart of men. It is manifested in the human will.

If there were no creation for evil to operate in, Where would evil be?

That does not indicate that God created evil.

squint · Jan 3, 2009

AmericanCatholic said:
You say that as if you asked only one question. Why not address my argument? I'll repost it case you innocently missed it: Evil, having not been created, has no inherent purpose. It exists as a consequence of a will that rejects God, "sustaining" in the hole that is in the heart of men. It is manifested in the human will.

That does not indicate that God created evil.

You mean the phony 'freewill' construct that removes God from either creating such a FAULTY will or being INVOLVED with that will subsequently?

lol

AmericanCatholic · Jan 3, 2009

You mean the phony 'freewill' construct that removes God from either creating such a FAULTY will or being INVOLVED with that will subsequently?

Why is it necessary for God to be involved in the human will?

God did not create evil.

r3b0rn

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