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God creates those doomed for hell?

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Vale

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The bible says that god is omnipotent, and knows ours entire life, before we are even born.

That means god creates people, with the full knowledge that they will go to hell.

Someone answer me on this, and don't side-track off. Don't tell me we have free-will, that's not the point. The point is that god knows our choices, and he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones.

Explain.
 

Jayangel81

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The bible is correct God does know everything He knows who will accept Christ and who will not.

Whether you want to knock out free will or not.. in the END it is our choice, why? Because even tho God knew we would rebel against Him, He gave all of us a choice..

He knew from the very begining what was going to happen that is why the only thing God could do without messing with free will is to come down from His glory in Heaven and Die on the cross for all of us.

God endlessly tried to get us on the right track..But we made our decision and to disobey Him so He did the ultimate thing for us. He sent His son to die and pay for our debt..

Its probably going to come into play that youre gonna wana know why He created us if He knew right? (it usually comes into play)..People dont understand how important Free Will is.. Could He have made us perfect and not wanting to choose Him and only Him? Of coarse He could have He is God Almighty His power is unlimited.. But He wants us to love Him sincerely.

And well there are alot of us who do love Him but we do it based on Free will and with His grace.

Hell was never created for us, It was created for one purpose only for satan and the 1/3 angels that rebeled against Him.

Let me ask you a question, does it trouble you knowing that God knew from the begining that We would disobey Him and treat Him like he was nothing??

What if I told you from the begining that His plan was to set us free from our sins through His son?

Would it be better if He created us to be robots so we could love Him(not sincerely might i add) and therefor not go to Hell?

Peace and love to you my friend!
God Bless:hug:
 
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ebia

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The bible says that god is omnipotent, and knows ours entire life, before we are even born.
Actually what the bible says is considerably more nuanced and poetic that that. When you reduce what the bible uses story and poetry to say down to a (non-biblical) greek concept and a half-sentence model you haven't got closer to the truth but futher from it.

That means god creates people, with the full knowledge that they will go to hell.
That assumes that:
a. there is a place called hell
b. that some people are going there
c. (implicitly, looking ahead at the next sentence) that going there is worse than never having existed.

Someone answer me on this, and don't side-track off. Don't tell me we have free-will, that's not the point. The point is that god knows our choices, and he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones.

Explain.
Explain what exactly?
 
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Jayangel81

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I was eating and praying for you while i thought of a question maybe you can be asking. maybe this is how i see things.

While knowing the people who were not to accept Christ why not just "not create them" and only create those who would accept Christ in the end?

Now this is coming from me and not the Lord (i dont think anyway) Have you ever heard the phrase "Its better to have loved than to have not loved at all" ?

Perhaps it applies here, whether we accept Him or not i truly believe God loves us no matter what.. I think He enjoys watching us grow up and so forth and so forth. and not everyone is a physcho killer..I donno just a thought maybe

In truth i personally dont believe Hell will torment the person forever i do believe there is a second death and that is what will take place, we will simply cease to exist. I guess in the end maybe we just need to ask God.

Perhaps instead of asking other people maybe sit down pray to God and ask Him with a sincere heart. He does answer prayers, might not be immediate but He will if you really do seek the answers.
 
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Adstar

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The bible says that god is omnipotent, and knows ours entire life, before we are even born.

That means god creates people, with the full knowledge that they will go to hell.

Someone answer me on this, and don't side-track off. Don't tell me we have free-will, that's not the point. The point is that god knows our choices, and he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones.

Explain.

No sidetracking here :)

[FONT=&quot]Yes God knows us before we where born. And yes He knows mine and your eternal destination before you where born. But that comes from His power of forknowledge, not from Him creating one person to have eternity with Him and another to have eternity in the lake of fire.

Romans 8
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Foreknowledge comes before Predestination.

Each and everyone has free will to either embrace and accept the will of God or reject the will of God. This is true and again not a sidetrack.

With foreknowledge both free will and Gods Predestination can happen and no be a contradiction.

This allows God to fulfil the requirement for justice while still knowing the beginning and the end, as you say omnipotent.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/FONT]
 
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prgallo

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The bible says that god is omnipotent, and knows ours entire life, before we are even born.

That means god creates people, with the full knowledge that they will go to hell.

Someone answer me on this, and don't side-track off. Don't tell me we have free-will, that's not the point. The point is that god knows our choices, and he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones.

Explain.
Yes he does know that people will go to hell, many people in fact. What's your point?



You comment "he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones" is a bit confusing though, can you explain that?
 
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tapero

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The bible says that god is omnipotent, and knows ours entire life, before we are even born.

That means god creates people, with the full knowledge that they will go to hell.

Someone answer me on this, and don't side-track off. Don't tell me we have free-will, that's not the point. The point is that god knows our choices, and he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones.

Explain.

God does not know until we believe that we will do so. One is not born to hell and another to heaven.

So, no God does not create people to go to hell.

God does not know what I will do in a minute, except for the fact I've thought it but until I do so, does not know.

God has ordained things which will occur in the future; and in my understanding will bring them about..such as end times scenarios, etc.

There is much on this topic.. and I can't fully explain it all...but can tell you the predestination verse which speaks to people being predestined, refers not to individuals but refers to the church which is what is predestined.

The church meaning all which occurs to us, when we are in the body, once we believe.

Anyone can come to Jesus. No one is born to hell.

God desires all to be saved.

Meanwhile, yup, we all have free will; and again; God does not know what you will do in 10 minutes except again for the fact he knows all our thoughts and knows us rather intimately; and so God does not know what we will choose to do tomorrow; hence does not know who will come to Him until they do so.

If God creates one to hell, one to heaven, then free will goes out the picture as does much more.
 
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TimRout

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Problem: If God knows everything, why would He create people whom He knew would never believe in His Son, and would thus end up in hell?


Answer: Different Christians will handle this question variously. Some believe that God has such a high respect for human freedom that He gives people the chance to make their own choices, even though He knows in advance that some of them will choose wrongly. This position is not entirely without merit. Certainly, human beings are held accountable for the choices they make, whether good or bad. And there is no doubt God knows in advance what choices people will make.


However, it is also true that human beings are creations of God. We are His property and He is therefore entitled to do with us as He pleases. The Bible says that certain people have been created with a hard, faithless heart in order to facilitate the salvation of others. For example, God created many Jewish people who, for the time being, absolutely refuse to acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah. Yet this temporary hardening of Jewish hearts is specifically designed to facilitate the salvation of Gentiles [Romans 11:25] and will one day come to an end [Romans 11:26-27]. Thus, as history wraps up, many Jews will at last see the light and receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior.


There is a certain pride in the human heart that prompts us to dismiss the very idea that God might use us, interfere with us, or even kill us – all for the sake of His prophetic purposes. When people read through parts of the Bible that talk about God choosing only a select group for heaven, and giving only these elected ones the ability to come to faith in Christ, it often provokes an angry, sneering response. After all, most people would like to think they have a fair bit of control over their destinies. But when a person has been humbled and softened by the Holy Spirit, given the gift of faith, and made ready to repent, this pride is supernaturally replaced with an extraordinary peace that passes all understanding – a deep inner knowledge that the Lord is in control.


Of course, this begs the question, “How can we tell if someone is on God's heaven list?” The only biblical answer is, we can't know. God keeps the list of the elect private. But we do know this: Those whom God has elected will one day respond to the gospel and come to faith in Christ. Consequently, Christians must never assume that a person is “unsavable”. It is my duty to pray hard and preach with clarity. The results are up to God. That's why I'm not particularly concerned about trying to convince you that my faith is correct. If you are one of God's elect, He will open your eyes through the preaching of His Bible, and you will melt like butter in the warmth of His mighty hand.


Recently, I was speaking with a Buddhist friend in another forum. He accused me of being little more than a slave to my God. Though he didn't intend it as a complement, he is nevertheless correct. I AM a slave to Christ, my God. Every born again Christian is held captive by the love that set us free from sin and death. And it is that perfect love that compels me to live for the Lord and share my faith with others [2 Corinthians 5:14]. If you are ready to turn away from everything God says is wrong and give your life to Jesus Christ, then He is ready to receive you as His child.
 
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WarEagle

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You've gotten some interesting answers, some Biblical, such as adstar's, and some not so Biblical, such as the ones that tell us that people are not tormented in Hell and that God does not know what's going to happen.

While it is Christ who sends people to Hell, ultimately, they, themselves, are responsible for their standing in Christ. Yes, God knows who is and is not going to Hell. However, He has also gone to extraodinary lengths to keep them out of Hell.

As Adrian Rogers once said, "God has placed so many roadblocks between the sinner and Hell that the sinner must climb over the cross to get there".

You can see the progression of those who reject Christ in the first 3 chapters of the book of Romans. The wrath of God is revealed against the unrighteous because man rejects the Creator and worships the creation (Romans 1:18-20). Men profess to be wise in their own eyes (v. 22) and exchange the glory of God for created things. These people then continue in a downward spiral of sin that is listed in verses 28-31, sins to which all of us can relate. Not only do they participate in these sins, but they also approve of those who do them (v. 32). Not only do men have the creation of the world to see God’s power, but they also have their consciences convicting them of their sin (2:14-15). In the end, man is left without excuse that we deserve to die, and we stand condemned in front of God.

Jesus Christ came in the flesh so that “you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name” (John 20:30,31). This is another witness to God’s existence and also stands to condemn those men who choose to reject Christ as the Son of God. Because Christ came to pay the price of sin, and He came to “explain the Father” (John 1:18), man has no excuse for rejecting Him. Men choose to go to hell because they reject Christ, not because God causes them to go there. God has paid the price, revealed Himself to all, and now men are “without excuse” (Romans 1:20). God allows people to be born to give them the opportunity to believe, but it is man’s responsibility to make that choice. What kind of God would He be if He did not give man the opportunity to place his faith in the Lord?

This is still a very difficult concept to grasp. We can only cling to what we know about God’s nature and character, trust that His sovereignty and mercy do not contradict one another, and believe that everything He does and/or allows will ultimately be for His glory. We submit ourselves to Him in worship and obedience and trust that He “works all things according to the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11) and that His ways are perfect, even when we don’t understand them. “He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he” (Deuteronomy 32:4).
 
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Emmy

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Dear Vale. It is true, God is all - powerful, and He knows All. God created us good. But then Adam and Eve believed a lying Serpent, rather than a loving God, and they did eat of the forbidden Tree. They were banished to Earth, and instead of repenting, they became more selfish, more unloving and uncaring, as they moved farther and farther away from. All who came after, did go the same selfish and wilful way. In time Jesus came and reconciled us to God. We were free to accept a loving God, or go our own selfish way. God is also Love, and all our lives God will woo and love us, and even if God knows that some of us will Not choose to return to Him, we have the chance until the very end of our lives. That is why there can be heard loud wailing and gnashing of teeth, in Outer Darkness, because that is where the men and women will end, who choose to go their own way. God condemns NO-One to hell, even those who have the same chance as everybody else, will not be forced to return to God, they may go their own way, and end up in Outer Darkness, without God`s Love or Light. I say this humbly and with love, Vale. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.
 
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zeke37

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Hi Vale...
The bible says that god is omnipotent, and knows ours entire life, before we are even born.

not really....else this life would not matter...why do it if He already knows???

That means god creates people, with the full knowledge that they will go to hell.

absolutely not...God created your soul a long, long time ago...and He knows what you are like...from the time before the foundations of the world (age)...

Someone answer me on this, and don't side-track off. Don't tell me we have free-will, that's not the point. The point is that god knows our choices, and he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones.

Explain.

no...although He has an idea....from that time before the foundations of the world...that is when He chose the elect, so they could in this age, help Him bring forth His plan to save as many as is possible.

but this age of flesh life was set up so that we(all) can get back into God's good graces...



God will not make someone love Him....that's gotta be real, and that is what this age is for...He does not want robots...



in His service
c
 
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visionary

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First lie - you shall not die
Death - the end of life - hell = grave
Resurrection - gift from God through Jesus - restoring life after death
Hell = fire = baptism of holy spirit
Baptism for Holy Spirit - Good for those happy to receive it... burns for those who don't
 
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Restube

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The bible says that god is omnipotent, and knows ours entire life, before we are even born.

That means god creates people, with the full knowledge that they will go to hell.

Someone answer me on this, and don't side-track off. Don't tell me we have free-will, that's not the point. The point is that god knows our choices, and he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones.

Explain.
Only Satan and his demons will go to Hell. No human will go to hell.
 
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Merlin

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The bible says that god is omnipotent, and knows ours entire life, before we are even born.

That means god creates people, with the full knowledge that they will go to hell.

Someone answer me on this, and don't side-track off. Don't tell me we have free-will, that's not the point. The point is that god knows our choices, and he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones.

Explain.

God gives you the choice, freewill, whether you want to hear it or not.
 
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Jayangel81

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God gives you the choice, freewill, whether you want to hear it or not.
They dont want to hear it im afraid :('

Quote:
Originally Posted by Restube
Only Satan and his demons will go to Hell. No human will go to hell.


Hell was orignally for satan and the 1/3 of angels that rebeled against God, But you can be sure that there will be many humans going as well, Jesus spoke about it how many times.. Stop sinning, repent and accept Christ..and noone would have to go
 
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kj7gs

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The bible says that god is omnipotent, and knows ours entire life, before we are even born.

That means god creates people, with the full knowledge that they will go to hell.

Someone answer me on this, and don't side-track off. Don't tell me we have free-will, that's not the point. The point is that god knows our choices, and he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones.

Explain.
Yes, full knowledge. The thing is, you're not off the hook if you have free will and He still has full knowledge. Now He not only knows what you will choose, your free will makes Him make you choose!

This is resolvable if and only if we are guilty to start. Otherwise you must deny Hell or put everybody in Heaven, neither of which the Bible supports.

If Jesus died for all, then we either have a roulette wheel of grace and a conundrum where Jesus died for everyone but did not die for everyone, or Jesus is a liar, handing back sins after death so that the wicked can be punished.
 
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Reformationist

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The bible says that god is omnipotent, and knows ours entire life, before we are even born.

That means god creates people, with the full knowledge that they will go to hell.

Someone answer me on this, and don't side-track off. Don't tell me we have free-will, that's not the point. The point is that god knows our choices, and he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones.

Explain.

Not sure what you mean by "explain" but, in answer to what appears to be the question of, "Does God do as I believe He does," i.e., create all people knowing beforehand who will go to hell, then yes, He does create all people knowing beforehand who will go to hell.

God bless
 
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Knowing God knows who will choose Heaven and who will choose Hell is a comfort to me. He's been completely fair and even better than fair. Sending His only begotten Son to die in our place and then rise from the dead so that we can live forever with Him in Heaven was way beyond fair.

The comfort comes from the fact He is so powerful, He is all knowing, and in all knowing, knows our thoughts and decisions before we do. That proves He's God. I'm not as concerned about the things I don't understand about God as the things I do understand. It's the devil's job to make it appear that God isn't good. But God is truly good, and is the author of anything that is good. He knows how to handle such dreadful knowledge of who will choose life and who will choose death.

I trust Him. He didn't make me a "robot", so my love for Him is genuine. And, so is His love for me (and you,too).
 
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Faith In God

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The bible says that god is omnipotent, and knows ours entire life, before we are even born.

That means god creates people, with the full knowledge that they will go to hell.

Someone answer me on this, and don't side-track off. Don't tell me we have free-will, that's not the point. The point is that god knows our choices, and he knows who will make the bad ones, and the good ones.

Explain.

What's there to explain?
He's not the one making the "bad decisions". We are.

Explained.



I'm being slightly facetious. But in all seriousness...the world would not be the world without free will. And many people who are saved are not JUST the products of those around them who are also saved: the unsaved also play roles in this world.
 
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