God cannot lie, and what are the other things God cannot do?

[GoldenKingGaze]

Scripture tells us that God cannot lie. God doesn't change... what things are there that God cannot do?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Scripture tells us that God cannot lie. God doesn't change... what things are there that God cannot do?

Be subjected to the desires of men.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

He cannot leave us or forsake us.

Hebrews 13:5 Webster
5. Let your manner of life be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Many people have difficulty with this concept - God not being able to do things.
They feel saying "God cannot..." will deny His sovereignty. They will insist that God can do anything.
For instance, lie.
They insist that God is able to lie, but He simply refuses to do so.
Many, such as myself, will say this is not how the divine nature works. There is no darkness in God. There is no sin in God. This is not a limitation! This is the best of virtues!
The principle can be shown again in 1 John 3

1 John 3:9 KJV
9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

A born again believer cannot sin from his reborn spirit because his reborn spirit has the nature of God, his father. We cannot sin from our spirit because God cannot sin from His spirit.

That which is born from righteousness is righteousness.
1 Peter 1:23 KJV
23. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[bbbbbbb]

God cannot sin.

This concept is curious and has been hotly debated over the centuries. If it was completely impossible for Jesus Christ to have sinned, what was the point of His temptation in the wilderness?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

God cannot sin.

This concept is curious and has been hotly debated over the centuries. If it was completely impossible for Jesus Christ to have sinned, what was the point of His temptation in the wilderness?

That discussion reminds me of the "fully God, fully human" debate.
Some suggest that if Jesus was "fully human" then He had to be capable of sin... but never committed sin.
As you suggest, if Jesus could NOT sin, then was it a genuine temptation?

 

[IoanC]

God cannot be a source of negativity.

 

[bbbbbbb]

God cannot be a source of negativity.

Isaiah 45:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Explanation of Is 45:7 (From the book "The 'God is in Control of Everything' Myth")

​

Isaiah 45:6-7​

"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,​

that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.​

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:​

I the LORD do all these things."​

Read this verse in the context of what is being said.

Shadows Sometimes Silhouette the Object

Isaiah is setting up opposites. This is a common literary technique used by the authors of the Old Testament. To help us fully understand a principle, the author contrasts one aspect of the principle against another, thereby creating a complete view of what is being said.

"I form the light and create darkness..."

This is more than merely “opposites," rather, it is where the second thing is what you have in the "absence" of the first. There is darkness in the absence of light. There is chaos in the absence of order.

Genesis 1
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Here light is created, and as a result of the light, the dark is defined. I can create darkness too. I can walk in front of the sun and "create" shadow: "darkness."

Without the light, we would not know what the opposite "dark" was. In reality, darkness is merely the absence of light. It is created when light is covered. Darkness came as a result of light being made. You could read that verse as saying:

"I form the light and (by doing so) create (or define) darkness..."

One aspect is contrasted against the other, so you fully understand what He is saying. We have to read the next half of the verse the same way.

"I make peace, and create evil..."

So what is the opposite of peace? I believe that “evil” in this context is just the absence of orderly peace. It is chaos. If you take away the orderly structure of a building, you end up with the chaos of that building falling. Just as you remove light, you end up with darkness, so you end up with chaos and disaster when you remove the orderliness of peace. It is a matter of opposites and the second existing in the absence of the other.

(Also He did not say: "I make righteousness and create evil")

He is not talking about moral evil. He is talking about the opposite of peace: Chaos.

What is defined by the absence of peace? The answer is found in some of the better translations:

Isa 45:7 (GW)
(7) I make light and create darkness.
I make blessings and create disasters.
I, the LORD, do all these things.

Disasters come into being in the context that they are the opposite (or absence) of "blessings."

Isa 45:7 (NASB)
7 The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these.

“Calamity” exists in the context that they are the opposite (or absence) of "well-being."

Isa 45:7 (Amplified Bible)
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace [national well-being]
and I create [physical] evil (calamity);
I am the Lord, Who does all these things.

He "creates" physical evil/calamity in the context that it is the opposite (or absence) of "peace/well-being."

Isaiah 45:7 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
7 I form light and create darkness,
I make success and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.

He creates "disaster" because it is the opposite (or absence) of success. In these verses, the meaning of "evil" is controlled and defined by the meaning of an absence of the positive things such as "light" and "peace." The words being used for "create" and "form" are even different Hebrew words, The show that the formation of the first items (light/peace) are the "things" actually "formed" by God, and the second items (darkness/calamity) are merely defined and are the result of the actualization of the first items.

Darkness is the absence of light.

Calamity is the absence of peace. And in this context, I think a better word than peace is actually “placid.” You can reflect that the chaos of a raging sea is the opposite of a placid one.
God created a universe of the possible. Nobody had to fall into evil. But for it to be an actual, genuine, stand-alone creation, it has to be a universe of the possible. When God created this universe of the possible, He imparted elements of His being into it. Sovereignty, the right to exist, the right to act according to its natural forces. We speak of men having free will. But creation itself is endowed with a free course.
Nothing had to careen off into evil, but it did, and God knew it would. But He did not create it evil. He only created the possibility. Without possibility, God could never have a family that loved Him, praised and worshiped him. Without the possibility of evil... there would be no possibility of good.
For instance, my sister gave birth to a child. The child became a criminal. He was not born to be a criminal. But still, my sister unintentionally "created" evil.
God created "chaos" when He created possibility. He is not the author of confusion, only possibility. The fact that confusion exists in the universe proves that God is not in control of everything. When you see possibility, you see God. You see events that God did not directly initiate when you see confusion, evil, and chaos.

It is very much like how the law reveals sin.

As the New Testament says, without the law, sin is not defined. But did God "create" sin? No, the light merely defines the sin, exposes it, and shows us what sin is. I think Isa 45:7 is saying something very much like this. Without light, darkness cannot exist, be defined, or be understood. Without peace, calamity ("evil"), as the absence of peace, is not defined or understood.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

That discussion reminds me of the "fully God, fully human" debate.
Some suggest that if Jesus was "fully human" then He had to be capable of sin... but never committed sin.
As you suggest, if Jesus could NOT sin, then was it a genuine temptation?

Maybe change it to God WILL NOT sin.

God is separate from sin, God can do anything but it goes against His nature even if He is human and subject to temptations which were real for Jesus, He could have sinned and the temptation was real for Him but He still chose not to sin.

 

[Frank Sophia]

Isaiah 45:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

I like that you use this translation...

It is a huge shock for a lot of Christians to read this, and later it seems Zoroastrian concepts are brought in such that God is now equivalent to Ahura Mazda and fighting Angra Mainyu which became Satan due to embarrassment about it...

If we stop for a second there is a deeper assertion being made here though...

There is simply nothing that isn't God.

It is a radical assertion of oneness, but people dislike it.

 

[Frank Sophia]

Maybe change it to God WILL NOT sin.

God is separate from sin, God can do anything but it goes against His nature even if He is human and subject to temptations which were real for Jesus, He could have sinned and the temptation was real for Him but He still chose not to sin.

I think the issue is in your definition of sin...

We see in Mark 3:1-6 that Jesus has violated Exodus 31:15 and they immediately want to follow through on the punishment even though actually Jesus is doing a loving act in healing someone...

Now, if your definition of sin is merely the breaking of Levitical law then you have an issue here because it says Jesus sinned by your definition...

We are told Jesus is wholly sinless though, so we are forced to consider another meaning.

Sin means to miss the mark, and repent means return...
God is oneness itself, and through our complete unity we are saved...
Jesus is sinless because he is united to the Father and we are to be too...
Instead we try to fix the flesh and ignore the Spirit entirely.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

I think the issue is in your definition of sin...

We see in Mark 3:1-6 that Jesus has violated Exodus 31:15 and they immediately want to follow through on the punishment even though actually Jesus is doing a loving act in healing someone...

Now, if your definition of sin is merely the breaking of Levitical law then you have an issue here because it says Jesus sinned by your definition...

We are told Jesus is wholly sinless though, so we are forced to consider another meaning.

Sin means to miss the mark, and repent means return...
God is oneness itself, and through our complete unity we are saved...
Jesus is sinless because he is united to the Father and we are to be too...
Instead we try to fix the flesh and ignore the Spirit entirely.

I didn't define sin nor did I define it as breaking levitical law like the pharisees said. I'm not a pharisee.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I like that you use this translation...

It is a huge shock for a lot of Christians to read this, and later it seems Zoroastrian concepts are brought in such that God is now equivalent to Ahura Mazda and fighting Angra Mainyu which became Satan due to embarrassment about it...

If we stop for a second there is a deeper assertion being made here though...

There is simply nothing that isn't God.

It is a radical assertion of oneness, but people dislike it.

Thank you. I did choose the KJV translation for the very specific reason you picked up on. Concerning the other response to my post, one can interpret the passage in that manner, but there are many other problematic passages which plague those who wish to believe that God cannot be a source of negativity. One that readily comes to mind is the very interesting dialogue between God and Satan at the beginning of Job. Satan was incapable of afflicting Job without God's express permission.

 

[Frank Sophia]

Thank you. I did choose the KJV translation for the very specific reason you picked up on. Concerning the other response to my post, one can interpret the passage in that manner, but there are many other problematic passages which plague those who wish to believe that God cannot be a source of negativity. One that readily comes to mind is the very interesting dialogue between God and Satan at the beginning of Job. Satan was incapable of afflicting Job without God's express permission.

I team together Hebrews 7 and 2 Corinthians 3 to show your mistake that you might undo Galatians 5:4 in you.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Explanation of Is 45:7 (From the book "The 'God is in Control of Everything' Myth")

​

Isaiah 45:6-7​

"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,​

that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.​

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:​

I the LORD do all these things."​

Read this verse in the context of what is being said.

Shadows Sometimes Silhouette the Object

Isaiah is setting up opposites. This is a common literary technique used by the authors of the Old Testament. To help us fully understand a principle, the author contrasts one aspect of the principle against another, thereby creating a complete view of what is being said.

"I form the light and create darkness..."

This is more than merely “opposites," rather, it is where the second thing is what you have in the "absence" of the first. There is darkness in the absence of light. There is chaos in the absence of order.

Genesis 1
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Here light is created, and as a result of the light, the dark is defined. I can create darkness too. I can walk in front of the sun and "create" shadow: "darkness."

Without the light, we would not know what the opposite "dark" was. In reality, darkness is merely the absence of light. It is created when light is covered. Darkness came as a result of light being made. You could read that verse as saying:

"I form the light and (by doing so) create (or define) darkness..."

One aspect is contrasted against the other, so you fully understand what He is saying. We have to read the next half of the verse the same way.

"I make peace, and create evil..."

So what is the opposite of peace? I believe that “evil” in this context is just the absence of orderly peace. It is chaos. If you take away the orderly structure of a building, you end up with the chaos of that building falling. Just as you remove light, you end up with darkness, so you end up with chaos and disaster when you remove the orderliness of peace. It is a matter of opposites and the second existing in the absence of the other.

(Also He did not say: "I make righteousness and create evil")

He is not talking about moral evil. He is talking about the opposite of peace: Chaos.

What is defined by the absence of peace? The answer is found in some of the better translations:

Isa 45:7 (GW)
(7) I make light and create darkness.
I make blessings and create disasters.
I, the LORD, do all these things.

Disasters come into being in the context that they are the opposite (or absence) of "blessings."

Isa 45:7 (NASB)
7 The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these.

“Calamity” exists in the context that they are the opposite (or absence) of "well-being."

Isa 45:7 (Amplified Bible)
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace [national well-being]
and I create [physical] evil (calamity);
I am the Lord, Who does all these things.

He "creates" physical evil/calamity in the context that it is the opposite (or absence) of "peace/well-being."

Isaiah 45:7 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
7 I form light and create darkness,
I make success and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.

He creates "disaster" because it is the opposite (or absence) of success. In these verses, the meaning of "evil" is controlled and defined by the meaning of an absence of the positive things such as "light" and "peace." The words being used for "create" and "form" are even different Hebrew words, The show that the formation of the first items (light/peace) are the "things" actually "formed" by God, and the second items (darkness/calamity) are merely defined and are the result of the actualization of the first items.

Darkness is the absence of light.

Calamity is the absence of peace. And in this context, I think a better word than peace is actually “placid.” You can reflect that the chaos of a raging sea is the opposite of a placid one.
God created a universe of the possible. Nobody had to fall into evil. But for it to be an actual, genuine, stand-alone creation, it has to be a universe of the possible. When God created this universe of the possible, He imparted elements of His being into it. Sovereignty, the right to exist, the right to act according to its natural forces. We speak of men having free will. But creation itself is endowed with a free course.
Nothing had to careen off into evil, but it did, and God knew it would. But He did not create it evil. He only created the possibility. Without possibility, God could never have a family that loved Him, praised and worshiped him. Without the possibility of evil... there would be no possibility of good.
For instance, my sister gave birth to a child. The child became a criminal. He was not born to be a criminal. But still, my sister unintentionally "created" evil.
God created "chaos" when He created possibility. He is not the author of confusion, only possibility. The fact that confusion exists in the universe proves that God is not in control of everything. When you see possibility, you see God. You see events that God did not directly initiate when you see confusion, evil, and chaos.

It is very much like how the law reveals sin.

As the New Testament says, without the law, sin is not defined. But did God "create" sin? No, the light merely defines the sin, exposes it, and shows us what sin is. I think Isa 45:7 is saying something very much like this. Without light, darkness cannot exist, be defined, or be understood. Without peace, calamity ("evil"), as the absence of peace, is not defined or understood.

If there was no evil before the angelic fall, did God create the fall in some way or uses it...?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

God's justice is restorative not punitive. Is darkness and calamity useful? Was there ever darkness before the fall of the angels? What is darkness? Darkness does not need to be evil.

I would say God does whatever He wants and desires, and that defines righteousness, and that is part explains why He can't sin.

The angelic fall defines sin and it hates God's character giving another explanation as to why God cannot sin.

 

[bbbbbbb]

God's justice is restorative not punitive. Is darkness and calamity useful? Was there ever darkness before the fall of the angels? What is darkness? Darkness does not need to be evil.

I would say God does whatever He wants and desires, and that defines righteousness, and that is part explains why He can't sin.

The angelic fall defines sin and it hates God's character giving another explanation as to why God cannot sin.

The problem then becomes clearly defined into two camps

One camp believes in a sort of deistic God who, despite other attributes, is either unwilling or incapable of doing nasty things such as hardening Pharaoh's heart and causing the plagues in Egypt, which in this view were probably natural coincidences possibly caused by the willing cooperation of Satan.

The other camp believes in an omnipotent God who not only hardened Pharaoh's heart and brought on the plagues in Egypt, but also planned the Fall of Adam and Eve from the foundation of the earth.

Both camps are open to reasonable attacks by their opponents.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The problem then becomes clearly defined into two camps

One camp believes in a sort of deistic God who, despite other attributes, is either unwilling or incapable of doing nasty things such as hardening Pharaoh's heart and causing the plagues in Egypt, which in this view were probably natural coincidences possibly caused by the willing cooperation of Satan.

The other camp believes in an omnipotent God who not only hardened Pharaoh's heart and brought on the plagues in Egypt, but also planned the Fall of Adam and Eve from the foundation of the earth.

Both camps are open to reasonable attacks by their opponents.

I would say God id apply His destructive power to Egypt but He could not soften Pharaoh's heart but only give him an opportunity, ten of them. Free will gave Pharaoh the two options.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I would say God id apply His destructive power to Egypt but He could not soften Pharaoh's heart but only give him an opportunity, ten of them. Free will gave Pharaoh the two options.

Exodus 4:21 The Lord said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

Exodus 7:1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. 2 You are to say everything I command you, and your brother Aaron is to tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his country. 3 But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt

Exodus 9:12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.

Exodus 10:1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them,

Exodus 10:20 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let the Israelites go.

Exodus 10:27 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he was not willing to let them go.

Exodus 11:10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.

Exodus 14:4 Thus I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and he will chase after them; and I will be honored through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord.” And they did so.

Exodus 14:8 The Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, so that he pursued the Israelites, who were marching out boldly.

Exodus 14:17 As for Me, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they will go in after them; and I will be honored through Pharaoh and all his army, through his chariots and his horsemen.

Who hardened Pharaoh's heart?