God and Time: Does God exist in all points in time?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2018

TheLostCoin said:
I think your problem here is you're conflating the measurement of time with time itself.

Nope. It's not a problem. Counting numbers in our universe is the same as measuring time. Or do you not know when the 10th day of the month is? Stop with the confusion already.

Math is a measurement; it isn't something that really objectively exists; Math is simply a formulation in our mind of measurement in terms of the logic of the universe.

Math is a formulation created by God. Math and or numbers exist in His Word. Without math time would not exist because you would not be able to measure it without numbers. Sure, God could freeze time and everything could be motionless? But what about God? Would He be frozen, too? Could not this time of where God freezes time with God thinking during this time be measurable with the counting of seconds or minutes?

You said:
If Christ miraculously changed 5 loaves of bread such that it could feed 5000 people, we say He "multiplied" it, regardless of any mechanism. He could have divided it infinitely, He could've instantaneously cloned it, He could have caused them to fade into existence, but regardless of whatever mechanism He used, we will still say He multiplied it because that obeys how we perceive the logic of the world.

Your not getting it. We count seconds, and minutes to also mark the passage of events in our physical world. These events are measured by increments or numbers. That is what time is. It is the counting or measurement of how the events unfold in our universe.

If I had 2 apples and 2 apples, and I said I have 5 apples, that doesn't change the fact I have 4 apples - I would just be calling 4 apples 5 apples, because it's how we perceive the rules of logic.

God is not the author of confusion. He would not create a Bizzaro world as you suggest that does not make any sense.

Time itself is something that does objectively exist, however. We try to measure it in order to understand it, applying mathematical rules, but the fact that time objectively moves slower on different planets (according to physics) means that it's a reality that really does exist. If I made the same exact time measurements on two different planets, I would come with two different results, even obeying our mathematical, logical perception, because time is objectively different on these planets.

No. God created time. Not man. In His Word, God set the sun and the moon to mark days. God set the seasons to mark the change of the months. God set these times and not man. God gave us these numbers to mark the passage of time and to record it.

TheLostCoin · Nov 20, 2018

Jason0047 said:
No. God created time. Not man. In His Word, God set the sun and the moon to mark days. God set the seasons to mark the change of the months. God set these times and not man. God gave us these numbers to mark the passage of time and to record it.

Considering that God can set the sun and the moon to mark days, how can it be possible that God is subject by the sun and moon marking days?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2018

Bruce Leiter said:
I think that we need to stay within the limits of Scripture as God's inspired Word. It does not solve all speculative questions. John Calvin had a good rule, "Go as far as the Bible goes, and then stop." That's hard for many people to do in this scientific age, but it's necessary for us who believe in the true God, who is mysterious apart from what he has revealed about himself.

Yes, while I agree with his words here in this instance, I am strongly against what John Calvin believes and those who claim to be Calvinists (or followers of him). Did not Paul condemn being a follower of other people by name in 1 Corinthians 3?

You said:
As far as our salvation goes, both Romans 8:29,30 and Ephesians 1 are clear that God knew and loved believers before he created the universe. Thus, he knows, that is, loves true Christians before they are born. The words translated "know" in the OT and NT between individuals means a personal, loving relationship between them, not just knowing with our minds. Therefore, "foreknowledge" means God's "fore-loving" and choice of his own. What other passages would you point to about this question? I can't think of any. Warmest regards, retired pastor Bruce Leiter.

I agree that God has perfect foreknowledge. I believe God knows every little detail of everything that is going to happen. He knows how many rocks and oxygen molecules there will be on your street address 4 months from now. There is nothing God does not know. God also knows every possibility, as well. Nothing in this life happens by accident. God is sovereign over all things. Granted, man has free will, but God is the One who ultimately allows things to happen or not. God lets evil exist in our world so as to give men more time to repent. For God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2018

TheLostCoin said:
Considering that God can set the sun and the moon to mark days, how can it be possible that God is subject by the sun and moon marking days?

They are merely constructs to use math so as to mark the changes within His universe. These constructs (like the sun and the moon) are not things that are necessary for God to count time. God can count time without these things. So can we. We created a stop watch and a computer to count time. Granted, this counting of time just so happens to work around the constructs that God gave us. But we could still come up with a measuring system to mark the passage of time if we decided to leave out these constructs.

The witness of change is measurable. God is not static and frozen in time doing nothing. So time would always be operable. God does not need a sun, moon, or change of seasons to count the passage of the change of events.

ToBeLoved · Nov 20, 2018

Jason0047 said:
I am not saying that God is bound by time. I already stated in my first sentence within my OP (original post) that God has no boundaries. God is certainly most capable of existing outside of time or in all points in time. But we need ask ourselves, does He actually exist in that way currently? I don't believe so because it would clearly contradict God resting (stopping from His work) on the 7th day.

What is "resting" for God?

Doesn't that only mean that God didn't create anything major, like the water, or sky, or humans.

The Bible doesn't give us much more than that.

ToBeLoved · Nov 20, 2018

Jason0047 said:
I can say the same for you.
Anyways, you are merely espousing an opinion and it is not offering proof that your position is true.

I'm just correcting your incorrect assumption that God existing outside of the rhealm of time is unBiblical.

It is not.

Carry on.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2018

ToBeLoved said:
What is "resting" for God?

Doesn't that only mean that God didn't create anything major, like the water, or sky, or humans.

The Bible doesn't give us much more than that.

I already said what resting was. I placed the meaning in parenthesis.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2018

ToBeLoved said:
I'm just correcting your incorrect assumption that God existing outside of the rhealm of time is unBiblical.

It is not.

Carry on.

It's not a correction if you do not offer any proof or logical points to show to the contrary.

ToBeLoved · Nov 20, 2018

Jason0047 said:
I already said what resting was. I placed the meaning in parenthesis.

Which post?

ToBeLoved · Nov 20, 2018

Jason0047 said:
It's not a correction if you do not offer any proof or logical points to show to the contrary.

The fact that God has no beginning or no end. That is one. For us time is measured.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2018

ToBeLoved said:
The fact that God has no beginning or no end. That is one. For us time is measured.

The post you quoted. Post #34. I said, "God resting (stopping from His work)"

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2018

ToBeLoved said:
The fact that God has no beginning or no end. That is one. For us time is measured.

God always existed. This doesn't mean time did not exist for God from Eternity's Past. If God did things that were different, these changes could be marked or written down and you would then have the passage of time recorded. Do you believe God was frozen in time within the past? I believe God was doing many things in the past (Which is measurable by math, that we call time).

TheLostCoin · Nov 20, 2018

Jason0047 said:
God always existed. This doesn't mean time did not exist for God from Eternity's Past. If God did things that were different, these changes could be marked or written down and you would then have the passage of time recorded. Do you believe God was frozen in time within the past? I believe God was doing many things in the past (Which is measurable by math, that we call time).

"In the beginning God created heaven, and earth." (Genesis 1:1)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him: and without Him was made nothing that was made." (John 1:1-3)

I have a question for you, Jason. If there is absolutely nothing created whatsoever but God, not even any "constructs" which He gave us, how exactly is it possible to say that time - the time which you and I measure - exists? How can measurements be made using tools and logic which doesn't exist?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2018

TheLostCoin said:
"In the beginning God created heaven, and earth." (Genesis 1:1)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him: and without Him was made nothing that was made." (John 1:1-3)

I have a question for you, Jason. If there is absolutely nothing created whatsoever but God, not even any "constructs" which He gave us, how exactly is it possible to say that time - the time which you and I measure - exists? How can measurements be made using tools and logic which doesn't exist?

God's knowledge. God knows all things. God is aware of math and time keeping now. Surely He would be aware of these things before the creation, too.

ToBeLoved · Nov 20, 2018

Jason0047 said:
The post you quoted. Post #34. I said, "God resting (stopping from His work)"

Ok. Well, then I don't believe that God stopped being who He is when He rested. I believe God rested to enjoy what He had created, not that God needed to rest, per se. I also believe God did it so He could set a pattern for us, human beings in that our bodies need rest.

I don't believe God needed "rest" for His Own sake. God doesnt have a human body or need sleep

fat wee robin · Nov 20, 2018

RDKirk said:
The concept is called "extemporal simultaneity."

God exists simultaneously at all points in space and all moments in time.

Because time and space are a created continuum, both concepts are actually one. Existing simultaneously at all points of space is the same thing as existing simultaneously in all moments of time.

Somewhere out there is the furthest reach of matter-energy, created at the Big Bang. That point (actually, it would be the surface of an expanding globe is both the beginning of time and the beginning of space), that place in space-time still exists. We will never really see it with telescopes because it's expanding away from us so fast that it's light will never reach us. But God is out there, right in that place and moment of space-time.

And right where I am in my own particular moment of space-time--my own personal here-and-now, God also exists...simultaneously.

It's well after midnight here ,but it sounds interesting to study in the Morning .

TheLostCoin · Nov 20, 2018

Jason0047 said:
God's knowledge. God knows all things. God is aware of math and time keeping now. Surely He would be aware of these things before the creation, too.

Sure, but the rules of math and time keeping couldn't themselves exist without creation.

You can imagine an inch of a line in your head - you can't point to an inch of a line or measure an inch of a line if nothing exists but your knowledge.

fat wee robin · Nov 20, 2018

Bruce Leiter said:
I think that we need to stay within the limits of Scripture as God's inspired Word. It does not solve all speculative questions. John Calvin had a good rule, "Go as far as the Bible goes, and then stop." That's hard for many people to do in this scientific age, but it's necessary for us who believe in the true God, who is mysterious apart from what he has revealed about himself.

As far as our salvation goes, both Romans 8:29,30 and Ephesians 1 are clear that God knew and loved believers before he created the universe. Thus, he knows, that is, loves true Christians before they are born. The words translated "know" in the OT and NT between individuals means a personal, loving relationship between them, not just knowing with our minds. Therefore, "foreknowledge" means God's "fore-loving" and choice of his own. What other passages would you point to about this question? I can't think of any. Warmest regards, retired pastor Bruce Leiter.

I don't think creativity stopped 2000 years ago .God allowed us to participate in His creation once we truly became His children ,that is why science could be developed ,and life on earth became more suitable for people to survive .
Not being a Calvinist and knowing his limitations, I do not agree with only going
as far as the Bible as understood by people who limit themselves to fear .

If we did that we would not be communicating here on this machine across invisible air .Thank God for those who were allowed to SEE beyond and enter in part at least with God's creatvity .

SkyWriting · Nov 20, 2018

Jason0047 said:
The most popular belief among Christians is that God exists in all points in time. However, does God really exist in all points of our time? Does God exist in the past, present, and future simultaneously?
While God most certainly has the power to do this, I do not think this is so.

So you didn't even check before posting? Odd.

Revelation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

Isaiah 41:4
Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I, the Lord, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Matthew 6:8
Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

SkyWriting · Nov 20, 2018

Jason0047 said:
If so, then how could God rest (stop from His work) on the 7th day if He is also working in the past within the 6 day creation still or He is working in the future?

If so, then how could Jesus offer up ONE sacrifice forever if He is still repeatedly re-sacrificing Himself in some past time line?

He would need to die for each generation and travel back
to Adams time.....unless He existed outside of time,
and once on the cross is good for all sin, past, present, and future.

God and Time: Does God exist in all points in time?

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