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mindlight

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I clarified what I meant in a later post and accept the essential point about communicatio idiomatum. Your points are well made though thanks.

And he was amazed at their unbelief. - Mark 6:6

In what form do you believe that God walked in the garden of Eden?
 
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The Liturgist

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I am not really comfortable with the idea of God as a playwright.
 
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mindlight

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I am not really comfortable with the idea of God as a playwright.

Nor should you be it is far from a perfect fit. Our Sovereign Lord is the Creator and Sustainer of all reality. But the youth of this generation live in world of social media stars and Netflix. This is a world of characters, plots, and plays, and God is filtered to them through this. The Thread is an attempt to explore that in much the same way as people in the past have explored views of Jesus as:

1) revolutionary - Liberation Theology
2) hippy - Jesus movement
3) Warrior Monk- templars
etc, etc, etc
 
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The Liturgist

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I don’t know, but it could have been in the person of Jesus Christ. Being omnipotent, and eternal, time has no meaning for our Lord after the ascension. I think most theophanies in the Old Testament, and all that are visual, are either God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. God the Father has only ever been heard; to paraphrase our Lord Jesus Christ, no one has seen the Father at any time except through Christ who revealed Him. Conversely, we don’t know if the Spirit speaks verbally. So perhaps at the Burning Bush Moses heard the Father and saw the Spirit. That bush is still alive, by the way, at St. Catharine’s Monastery in Sinai, which has one of the most important libraries and collections of sacred icons in the world, including the 5th century icon of Christ Pantocrator and a fragment of the Codex Sinaiticus (the rest was stolen from them by a European adventurer and is mostly in the possession of the British Library.
 
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Mark Quayle

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The way you say it sounds fatalistic to me

Only because you are used to a worldview where somehow things happen independent of purpose or specific causation. A game for your mind: We can be sure that what will happen, will indeed happen, and, that that is all that will happen. For all of history, we have no evidence that anything else ever happened, so why should we consider it possible that something other than what will happen, can happen?

But perhaps more convincingly is the logic of a few statements built upon each other: God is First Cause. I hope you can admit to that. He is first cause, or he is not God. And there can be no other first cause, or he is not quite first cause (I no, I did not say there are not other causes —just no other first causes). We then, are not first causes. Therefore, we are not independent of causation. So, either God caused some to be better than others in that they made better choices, or they choose better choices by Chance. But Chance can cause nothing. It is self-contradictory to say that chance determines anything.

It is natural to look at the notion of this life being a vapor with a certain degree of scorn. I do too, and I agree this life is indeed real. The Bible uses the idea of "vapor" only to describe the superiority and solidity/ finality of the next life. Christ did indeed die here. We do indeed make real decisions, with real, even eternal, results. But Christ was glorified and so will we be.


Jesus was God, but he did not know the day. Is that hard to accept, that Christ was on this earth as subservient to his Father, yet was himself also God? But consider that Christ also, is subservient to his Father in heaven, and sits at his right hand, yet is still God. I don't see the Spirit of God, who is subservient to both, sitting on the Father's left hand, yet he too is God. It is not impossible that God the Father is the only one who knows the day and the hour, because even if that is so, God still knows.

The naming of the animals is no more convincing an example than many others, some even more convincing, that sound like God doesn't know certain things, or that there are possibilities that deny predetermined future. I don't want to get into a battle over the meaning and use of certain specific words and language and rhetoric, nor about God condescending to speak to our limited understanding, but just understand, that if he does not know all things, he is not God. First Cause is not subject to any principle from outside himself.
 
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